G.sulcata.sp??

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onarock

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There has been alot of talk on the forum about leopard tortoise sub.sp. and weather or not there should be more than 2 or none at all. It got me thinking about sulcatas. Does anyone know if there has been a suggestion that there should be sub.sp within sulcata? Has anyone thats been keeping these animals ever had a reason to think that there should be because of large or small differences between groups? Are there sulcatas that dont get as big, or have different colored hatchlings, or are less aggresive?? Dont know if its been discussed here before. I'm just throwing it out there.
 

yagyujubei

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I've always wondered if the big pointy scaled legs ones were from a distinct population.
 

DeanS

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I have to say so because there is a distinct flat shell and uniform leg scales in some...especially the wild caught monsters! Then there are those that are higher domed and have the extended leg scales...whether they're separate ssp or just adapting through migration or evolution...that I cannot say!
 

onarock

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I would like to see an example of a higher domed sulcata. I probably have, just wasnt paying attention.
 

DeanS

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onarock said:
I would like to see an example of a higher domed sulcata. I probably have, just wasnt paying attention.

The higher domed are really just the captive born animals that are getting optimum amounts of food, heat and humidity and experiencing accelerated growth without MBD or pyramiding...my Climber and Tom's Tuck are excellent examples of this...but then again, they are yearlings and may flatten out as they mature...
 

Benjamin

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In the April 2005 Chelonian Conservation and Biology journal there is an article on mitochondrial DNA variation in eastern and western African sulcatas.
 

onarock

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I guess thats what I was thinking about. I'll look for that... thanks

Benjamin said:
In the April 2005 Chelonian Conservation and Biology journal there is an article on mitochondrial DNA variation in eastern and western African sulcatas.
 

DeanS

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Good to know...thanks Benjamin.
 

ADVANceNA

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hey thats awesome, i am going to have to look at that. good and interesting conversation topic ! i definitely do see how there could possibly be a subspecies.

i see probability with higher domed torts being high dome because of optimal health treatment, and diet. but i also must admit, some pics of sulcatas i have seen, wether juvenile or full adult, make them appear to be more on the flat-side of the spectrum. i dont know if its bad angle of the shot or what, but there is definitely a population of pretty flat shelled sullies.

do you think the variation in leg scale sizes can simply be attributed to the amount of digging on soft and hard-pack soil a tort performs though ? for example, my einstein has really extended pointy leg scales, some of the spikiest i've seen honestly. but he only digs and burrows in soft damp soil, nothing like hard-pack rocky soil he would get if he were housed outside or wild.
 

Criskers

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Benjamin said:
In the April 2005 Chelonian Conservation and Biology journal there is an article on mitochondrial DNA variation in eastern and western African sulcatas.



What does the article say?
 

ADVANceNA

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also, if someone finds a link to that article can they please share ? i cant seem to find it and would really like to read it, thanks !
 

jaizei

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I looked for it as well but couldn't find it online. If anyone else wants to give it a go:
Genetic analysis of mitochondrial DNA variation in eastern and western African spurred tortoises, Geochelone sulcata. Barbara Livoreil and Antoinette C. van der Kuyl 951
http://www.chelonian.org/titles/vol4-4/
 

John

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I sent an email to Anders and requested a copy of the article, will update if and when I get a response.
 

DeanS

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Ben's gonna send me a copy...I'll let you all know when I get it...probably a couple weeks or so!
 

DeanS

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He just informed me that it will go out tomorrow!
 
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