getting torts to lay eggs.....

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NEtorts

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Hi everyone.....haven't posted in a while but have been reading when I can.... my question is......how do you folks that breed your torts, get them to lay where you can find the eggs? How do you know when, where,to look? I have tilled up some spots in outdoor enclosure and blended peatmoss and sand and dirt to make for nice digging but I can't really see if they are digging? Any tips would be appreciated....
 

EricIvins

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You really don't......They lay where the substrate is suitable, and the majority of soil mixes just aren't suitable for most Females........

With that said - You do this long enough you'll gain the ability to tell what ground has been disturbed and what hasn't.......
 

Tom

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My females begin behaving differently 3-4 days before they lay. In essence, "telling" me to keep and eye out and watch for disturbed dirt or weeds. Sometimes they will dig test holes, but not always. Mine also lay all over their pen. On hills, around corners, next to walls, next to bushes, you name it. The process takes several hours, so I can usually catch them in the act. Finally, most of the time after they lay, they don't go into the night box that night. Don't know why this is. There are five tortoises in this enclosure and they ALWAYS go in the night box, every night. But for some reason, on the day a female drops her eggs, she will just go find a corner out in the open and try to sleep there. Every night I check to make sure they all made it into the night box, so if I count only four, I know one is either out laying, or recently finished. I don't like them sleeping out in the open and the cold, so I put them in the night box myself when I find them like this. The next night, it's back to their normal routine.

One thing to be careful about is digging them up. The way many people find their first nest is by smashing the first egg on top while digging for them. I have a feel for how deep my eggs are now, but when start getting close, I slow way down and dig just a little at a time with one finger. Almost scratching little bits of dirt away.
 

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It will only work with some species in some areas. My Gpp breeder leaves them in the ground and collects the babies as they hatch every August and September. He's tried doing it with regular leopards and it doesn't work. I have heard of an occasional sulcata hatching this way from a nest that was missed, but it is a very rare occurrence. I would think it might work with Russians or Mediterraneans, but I'd be afraid to lose those tiny babies if your weren't sitting right there when they started digging up and out.
 

EricIvins

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
Does anybody ever let their eggs incubate outside in situ?

Most of the hardcore Tortoise/Turtle guys here in Florida hatch their animals out this way......With large groups, a small percentage of nest are actually dug up, and quite a few have abandoned digging them up altogether.......

I have a few Sulcata clutches in the ground right now........Hopefully I'll see hatchlings sometime soon, especially with the rain we get every day now.......
 

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Very interesting. Do they do anything to protect the nests from all those Florida predators? Do they use anything to contain the babies as they hatch?
 

EricIvins

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Tom said:
Very interesting. Do they do anything to protect the nests from all those Florida predators? Do they use anything to contain the babies as they hatch?

What predators? I've never had a Raccoon/Opossom/Armadillo/etc. dig up a clutch. It happens with the native stuff all the time, but nothing non-native is ever touched........Hatchlings are collected when they decide to start moving around.......
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tom said:
I would think it might work with Russians or Mediterraneans, but I'd be afraid to lose those tiny babies if your weren't sitting right there when they started digging up and out.

Would it be all right if they emerged within a large enclosure that neither they nor their parents could escape from? I mean, might their parents attack them? Would they be vulnerable to predators if their parents aren't? And finally, would it be hopelessly difficult to find them?

My Russian pair aren't old enough to mate yet, but they're growing, and I was hoping to breed them au naturale at some point, if at all possible.
 

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
Tom said:
I would think it might work with Russians or Mediterraneans, but I'd be afraid to lose those tiny babies if your weren't sitting right there when they started digging up and out.

Would it be all right if they emerged within a large enclosure that neither they nor their parents could escape from? I mean, might their parents attack them? Would they be vulnerable to predators if their parents aren't? And finally, would it be hopelessly difficult to find them?

My Russian pair aren't old enough to mate yet, but they're growing, and I was hoping to breed them au naturale at some point, if at all possible.

1. Yes it would be alright, but how do you make a suitable outdoor enclosure that something the size of a nickel can't escape from or hide in?
2. Never tried putting a hatchling with a adult. Attack seems unlikely, BUT we are taking about russians...
3. Yes. There are definitely predators that would easily eat a hatchling that would not eat a 5-7" adult.
4. I think it would be hopelessly difficult to find a baby russian in a large outdoor pen. Physically possible, if you are lucky, but not very likely. Have you ever seen a fresh hatchling? They are TINY. And they are masters of disappearing from the eyes of predators.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tom said:
1. Yes it would be alright, but how do you make a suitable outdoor enclosure that something the size of a nickel can't escape from or hide in?
2. Never tried putting a hatchling with a adult. Attack seems unlikely, BUT we are taking about russians...
3. Yes. There are definitely predators that would easily eat a hatchling that would not eat a 5-7" adult.
4. I think it would be hopelessly difficult to find a baby russian in a large outdoor pen. Physically possible, if you are lucky, but not very likely. Have you ever seen a fresh hatchling? They are TINY. And they are masters of disappearing from the eyes of predators.

Hmm ... what if I fenced in the nest without touching the nest itself? Would that alter the temperature and moisture levels that helped attract the female to the spot in the first place? Would it attract predators there? And might it be harmful to the babies once they've hatched?
 

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I always figured that if I ever lived in an area or had a species that I wanted to try this with, that I would build a simple 2x4 frame and cover it with wire. Something around a three foot cube. This should keep out any predators, prevent another female or even the same female from digging up the same area, not change the temps at all, make sure i dont lose track of where the nest is due to seasonal changes and wearher, and contain any babies that hatch long enough for me to find them. I guess it could be smaller for Russians. Maybe a two foot cube.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Tom said:
I always figured that if I ever lived in an area or had a species that I wanted to try this with, that I would build a simple 2x4 frame and cover it with wire. Something around a three foot cube. This should keep out any predators, prevent another female or even the same female from digging up the same area, not change the temps at all, make sure i dont lose track of where the nest is due to seasonal changes and wearher, and contain any babies that hatch long enough for me to find them. I guess it could be smaller for Russians. Maybe a two foot cube.

Nice! Glad to hear you've thought about this, too, and that you think it's possible. :)
 

Tom

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Oh yeah, its definitely possible. I think temps and species are the main determining factors. My Gpp are living proof that it works. The breeder has been doing it for years. And according to Mr. Ivans, they are doing it in FL regularly with many species.
 

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Geo- I have thought about the same things you are asking, and while I know its possible, I would think it just has to be in the right climate. I just recently got my first russian egg. I dug it up and only found one, now I am worried I will miss another nest if she lays again in the coming weeks. Like Ericivins said, I guess I just have to have a keen eye for any disturbed earth. For me personally, being in southeastern PA, and you being in Colorado, I'm not sure the ground would ever stay warm enough to hatch Russians naturally. MAYBE in the late summer, but right now, I am getting days in the upper 70's to 80's and nights in the 60s, I don't think the ground is staying warm enough to incubate an egg.
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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jeffbens0n said:
Geo- I have thought about the same things you are asking, and while I know its possible, I would think it just has to be in the right climate. I just recently got my first russian egg. I dug it up and only found one, now I am worried I will miss another nest if she lays again in the coming weeks. Like Ericivins said, I guess I just have to have a keen eye for any disturbed earth. For me personally, being in southeastern PA, and you being in Colorado, I'm not sure the ground would ever stay warm enough to hatch Russians naturally. MAYBE in the late summer, but right now, I am getting days in the upper 70's to 80's and nights in the 60s, I don't think the ground is staying warm enough to incubate an egg.

Hmm ... but even if air temps are in the 60s-80s, direct sunlight on the earth can warm up it significantly more than that, even into the 100s*F. Females are very picky about where they lay their eggs, instinctively choosing spots that have the right texture, moisture, temperature, and lighting. Once my female is old enough, I would love to let her take a crack at natural incubation. :)
 

jeffbens0n

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
Hmm ... but even if air temps are in the 60s-80s, direct sunlight on the earth can warm up it significantly more than that, even into the 100s*F. Females are very picky about where they lay their eggs, instinctively choosing spots that have the right texture, moisture, temperature, and lighting. Once my female is old enough, I would love to let her take a crack at natural incubation. :)

You may be right about the sun heating up spots where they lay, I am just to paranoid to leave them in the ground if I can help it. Next time I get eggs i'll have to check the hole with a temp gun.
 
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