Golden not eating or pooping much at all - no vet close

[lindanccc]

Clementine was adopted in February from a rescue. She was eating and pooping fine but for a couple weeks now She is barely eating or pooping. I did alot of research and I have been soaking her once a day for around 30 minutes or until she gets out on her own and I put pedialyte in her soak. I have fed her pumpkin which resulted in very scant and sick looking poops she won't eat pumpkin for me anymore. She drinks a lot when I soak her and I have put baby food in the water with her. I live in Kansas closer to Denver and the closest vet will be a minimum of 3 hours in any direction. I took her to a local vet (they were nice enough to see her several flat out refused to even try) they took x-rays and said she did not look impacted and to watch her for a week if it didn't get better bring her back. I am afraid I don't have a week-she seems to be getting weaker. I changed her substrate to half top soil half sand today in case she was digesting the coconut husk. I am at a loss. She is the golden in my profile picture.

 

[JoesMum]

Hello and welcome

Problems like this are invariably caused by temperature issues.

To help you, we need the following:

• The 4 important temperatures - warm side, cool side, directly under the basking lamp and overnight minimum

• Pictures of your enclosure and lighting - including the bulbs. Pictures speak a thousand words.

• The species of your tort as care and diet varies between species. Pictures of your tort will help us to confirm - include a good clear shot of the plastron (undershell) including the tail.

As a starter, please read our Beginner Mistakes guide
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[JoesMum]

I just read this in your intro post

We adopted two tortoises from a rescue, in February. Unfortunately I joined the forum because one of our tortoises is sick and I am searching for ways to help her. We have Clementine and she is a golden and we have smokey I believe he is a herman. To be honest I am not sure. Smokey is amazingly adjusted and eats well. Clementine has been through a lot. She lost a leg after being attacked by a dog (this is what we were told) her shell is battered and broken in places and now I just worry she is sick and we are going to lose her. I have started a thread in Tortoise Health seeking advice. I am very impressed with what I have seen in the forum so far and I am so glad it is here.

Are you housing them separately?

Species should not be mixed as 'germs' that one species can carry harmlessly can make another species sick.

Pairs, even of the same species, are not generally successful. There is always a dominant tort and with pairs that translates into bully and victim.

If they are being kept together, they must be separated as this may well be why you have problems.

Please supply the information and pictures requested in my earlier post anyway.

 

[lindanccc]

Joesmum we are housing them together because we were told by the rescue that it would be fine I am going to upload some of the pictures you asked for. I realize that I am probably doing everything wrong. I don't have a temp under the light but you will see it in the pics. The light is turned off at night but we run the heater you see. Our house never goes below 70. They are allowed to come and go through the "door" in the side. We feed and water them outside of the pool now so they are not accidentally eating substrate. We have an outdoor enclosure for them but it has not been warm enough to put them outside for more than a few hours. Clementine definitely prefers outside which made me think she might have spent time outside on her own and maybe that's why her shell is in such bad shape. I don't know much about her at all just what we were told. We feed them a variety of lettuces and kale (red leaf, green leaf, romaine, squash, dandelions) and we just started grating cuttlebone into their food but she got sick before we started that. Sorry I didn't get her tail but this is a start.

 

[JoesMum]

The rescue gave you poor advice.

Each of these needs its own enclosure - a minimum if 8' x 4'.

They should not be allowed to roam the house. There is too much danger of them eating stuff they shouldn't and, worse still, being trodden on.

Sand is a poor substrate. It doesn't retain humidity and it sticks to food, getting eaten and then impacts in the gut. Orchid bark and coco coir are popular substrates on here as you can dump water in to raise humidity.

Their diet should be leafy greens. They can't digest sugars properly- it causes digestive and kidney problems- so fruit, bell pepper, tomato and carrot should only be fed sparingly and very occasionally.

Please read the beginner mistakes thread I linked earlier as that covers the basic problems.

I will be back with more

 

[JoesMum]

This list of suitable foods came from @Yvonne G (via @Tom I think)

Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

If you don't know what any of them look like, look them up on The Tortoise Table Plant Database
http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_database_14.asp

Store greens tend to lack fiber and nutrients, so shouldn't be the majority of the diet.

 

[JoesMum]

I cannot confirm the species of your torts - I am rubbish at it. In any case, we need a better shot of the plastron. It must include the tail and back legs.

We look at the shape of the tail and for spurs on the back legs.

Don't be afraid to turn your tort on its back for a moment to take the picture.

You must measure temperatures accurately. The temperature under the basking lamp is very important for food digestion and activity.

A temperature gun thermometer is inexpensive from Amazon or a hardware store and does the job best.

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

That Greek's shell is in rough shape. Look through what Jose's Mom linked to you. Some big changes will be needed her.

When you say you soak for 30 minutes or until the tortoise gets out, you shouldn't be giving the tortoise a choice here. Place her into a tall sided tub with shallow water to ensure she gets the soak she needs. I am surprised to hear she drinks a lot in every soak. Does she not have water available the rest of the day?

You need to measure temperature and humidity. A tortoise that isn't getting warm enough won't be able to digest their food and thus won't eat. Thermometers are an absolutely essential tortoise keeping supply.

You will need to separate your two tortoises and provide both with more suitable habitats. Tortoises aren't social and pairs often result in bullying. A stressed or intimidated tortoise won't eat. Tortoise bullying can be subtle so you may not realize you are seeing it.

You also need to not let them roam the house. Eating a bit of string or hair or garbage off the floor is much more likely and dangerous than eating the coir.

If you know your tortoise is warm enough and not suffering from pair stress, then a vet is in order. Impaction from eating some non-food item or parasites should be ruled out once you've made the changes you need to.

 

[jockma]

Roaming around the house and using sand = high risk for impaction. The "sick-looking poops" also indicate impaction IMO. I would put impaction high on the list of possible problems.

However, if she is drinking a lot of water, it's possible there is something wrong with her kidneys (such as a kidney stone). This also negatively impacts appetite and digestion. If you're sure she's female, she could be gravid. There are a lot of possibilities.

I would put something like mineral oil on her vent, give it a gentle massage and soak her repeatedly. Some have also fed mineral oil to lubricate the digestive tract and loosen any blockages. If she produces ANY stool I would immediately bag it, refrigerate it and send it into a lab for testing (you don't need to physically bring it to a vet, you can mail it).

 

[lindanccc]

Okay so today we will work on getting another enclosure for inside made. It is a beautiful day here so at least smokey can go outside in that enclosure. Should we leave Clem in or let her be outside for awhile? (Away from Smokey of course) please understand that we adopted Clem with her shell in the shape it is in we have only had her for 4 months and I am doing my level best to do right by her so bear with me please. I absolutely give her access to food and water 24/7. I live in a very small town and I cannot regularly get supplies but I will work on ordering a tempature gauge and new substrate. In the meantime please let me know if you think I should be doing something else right now to help her. I will have my daughter help me get a picture with tail and back leg (she came to us with one amputated). Thanks in advance!

 

[Jacqui]

If the temps are warm enough, yes take her outside. Sunshine can be magical. Not to mention added exercise and perhaps the chance to graze on some weeds.

 

[JoesMum]

If the temps are warm enough, yes take her outside. Sunshine can be magical. Not to mention added exercise and perhaps the chance to graze on some weeds.

As long as where she will be is secure from predators and escape! Don't just let her roam

 

[Jacqui]

Okay so today we will work on getting another enclosure for inside made. It is a beautiful day here so at least smokey can go outside in that enclosure. Should we leave Clem in or let her be outside for awhile? (Away from Smokey of course) please understand that we adopted Clem with her shell in the shape it is in we have only had her for 4 months and I am doing my level best to do right by her so bear with me please. I absolutely give her access to food and water 24/7. I live in a very small town and I cannot regularly get supplies but I will work on ordering a tempature gauge and new substrate. In the meantime please let me know if you think I should be doing something else right now to help her. I will have my daughter help me get a picture with tail and back leg (she came to us with one amputated). Thanks in advance!

Rest assured we know you are trying.

 

[Jacqui]

As long as where she will be is secure from predators and escape! Don't just let her roam

If you have not learned yet, these creatures are amazing at becoming invisible right in front of your eyes. Never turn your back on them, if they are in an insecure area. Just a word of caution. Sounds like perhaps you have had them outside before though?

 

[Pearly]

Hi Linda and belated welcome to TFO! You are getting great advise here already I was just going to ask you for a better closeup pics of Clem's shell, top and bottom (more focused). Getting bombarded with all kinds of advise all at once can feel pretty overwhelming and perhaps even uncomfortable, but please know that all of us here have one goal in mind: to help every member find answers that they need to provide for their pets. Most of us can remember our own "beginners' struggles", many of us got our pets out of a very bad situation and often in very bad shape to begin with... You are among friends here so just take a deep breath and tackle one thing at the time prioritizing. Keep asking away, post pictures to illustrate your issues... Help is on the way. Again, warm welcome from Texas. Btw I have a couple (also didn't know it was not ok!) of redfooted. Love them to pieces!

 

[Pearly]

Outdoors on nice warm day is often best medicine for a sick tort

 

[jockma]

Bean loves soaks outdoors in nice weather. Only way he sits still for more than a second. I supervise him because I live in a dry, hot area and don't want him overheating, soaking + sunshine is a great combo.

I still wouldn't rule out impaction just because Bean swallowed a (thankfully smooth) rock that backed him up for 2 weeks, had no appetite, the vet I took him to didn't see the rock. I soaked him repeatedly just in case and out popped the rock and a week's worth of poop. Went back to eating in minutes.