Is there any signs that I can tell if my yearling tortoise is a GBP or a GPP such as coloring or shape of the shell. Or do I just have to wait to see how big it gets.
Tom said:Is it technically a hybrid if its two of the same species, but different subspecies? I always refer to them as hybrids, but I think I might be "scientifically incorrect" when I do so. Also, many of the scientists nowadays are no longer recognizing any subspecies and consider them to be all one species, but with some geographically variable characteristics.
Just throwing that fun little monkey wrench into the mix there...
Neal said:Can't say conclusively, but it looks like a hybrid. Where did you get him from?
Here's why I think he's a hybrid:
1) South African leopards (GPP - Bigger) don't pyramid like that. You can tell the tortoise has a "dome" shape which is more typical with the East African Leopards (GPB - Smaller), and that's why the pyramiding looks more like what you would see on a GPB. So one point for GPB
2) The more vibrant colors of the black and white of the carapace is more of a GPB trait. GPP will have a duller black color, and the white is more of a bone/off white. One more point for GPB
3) The dots on the coastal scutes are a GPP trait. GPB will typically only have one or no dots on all their scutes. One point for GPP
4) The skin color and "freckling" is typically a GPP trait, though GPB are known to have that trait as well. We'll give that point to the GPP.
Other points - the vertabral scutes don't seem quite right for a pure GPB or pure GPP...can't explain that too well...they just don't look right to be distinguishable as either or. I think I read on another one of your threads that this one is a year old. It looks to be a pretty good size to for a one year old...but so many factors play into that, it is again not a really strong distinguishable trait between the two. There are other traits as well, but I think with all that said above, I've established why I think it's a hybrid. Knowing where and who you got it from will tell a lot of the story as well. Like Yvonne said, if the seller didn't tell you that it was a GPP...it probably isn't.
Here's a thread I wrote up. It's not as detailed as I would like it to be...but it has pictures and explanations.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-G-p-pardalis-and-G-p-babcocki#axzz1YdKNa6qi
emysemys said:Actually, when you breed sub-species to each other they aren't called "hybrid" they're referred to as "intergrade."
ewam said:Ok thanks it's just that there has been a lot of people saying that keeping two breeds together is not good and I've never heard about hybrids before.