Greek Tort Subspecies ID help

[jknight16]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. I recently lost one of my Sri Lankan stars.. passed away suddenly But in its honor I adopted 2 new torts . (Rescued) One of them is a Greek.. would love some help IDing a subspecies .

I have almost no info in him. The past owner guessed 3 years old.. its parents suposedly were smuggled in back in the 70s. I've had him now 2 days. He's going to the vet later this week to get his beak trimmed . His shell doesnt look to be in great shape either.

Any help would be appreciated . Thanks!
-J

 

[Pearly]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear you lost your tortoise. Also Congratulations on your new ones. I can't really help with the ID ing the subspecies I'm pretty ignorant as to the Mediterranean tort species, but wanted to just throw some thoughts out there. Since we don't know ANYTHING about you and how you keep your torts, I'm just curious what happened to your deceased one. Torts usually don't just suddenly die, unless it's a traumatic injury. Whichever the case I would caution you to be sure that whatever the cause of her death was, to be eliminated from your environment/husbandry in order to keep your new pets healthy and safe. Please do not take offense, you maybe a lot more experienced tort keeper than I am, but again I only know what you have revealed to us, and offering my sincere thoughts/concerns, because that is what this Forum is about: making new friends who share our common interest, sharing our knowledge and experience with one another with the goal of improving the overall condition of different tort species eventually all across the globe. Our work here most of us anyway) is pretty basic and "grass roots" but over time I believe will be very far reaching so we are extremely happy when new members sign on and can't wait for you to tell us more about yourself, your torts, how you keep them, ask questions, post pictures, share your own knowledge, learn and let us learn from you. It is very wonderful to have you here! Again, warmest welcome to you and your new pets!

 

[jknight16]

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear you lost your tortoise. Also Congratulations on your new ones. I can't really help with the ID ing the subspecies I'm pretty ignorant as to the Mediterranean tort species, but wanted to just throw some thoughts out there. Since we don't know ANYTHING about you and how you keep your torts, I'm just curious what happened to your deceased one. Torts usually don't just suddenly die, unless it's a traumatic injury. Whichever the case I would caution you to be sure that whatever the cause of her death was, to be eliminated from your environment/husbandry in order to keep your new pets healthy and safe. Please do not take offense, you maybe a lot more experienced tort keeper than I am, but again I only know what you have revealed to us, and offering my sincere thoughts/concerns, because that is what this Forum is about: making new friends who share our common interest, sharing our knowledge and experience with one another with the goal of improving the overall condition of different tort species eventually all across the globe. Our work here most of us anyway) is pretty basic and "grass roots" but over time I believe will be very far reaching so we are extremely happy when new members sign on and can't wait for you to tell us more about yourself, your torts, how you keep them, ask questions, post pictures, share your own knowledge, learn and let us learn from you. It is very wonderful to have you here! Again, warmest welcome to you and your new pets!

I am not a tremendously experienced keeper, but I have a good friend with 30+ years experience. Also talked with the breeder about the death. They were puzzled as well.
A basic rundown of how I kept the Sri.

Temps - 75 ambient, basking 90. UVB bulb
Humidity - 50-60%
Diet- ruffly 40% store bought "spring mix" 40% weeds from my yard 10% cactus
never without water
soak 2x weekly
exposure to natural sunlight 2x a week
Tort was about 6 months old.

Had two of them. The other is completely fine..
I came home for lunch one day to find one of the torts sleeping in its water dish. Alarmed but not worried at that point I placed it under its basking spot and went back to work. When I got home I noticed it had flipped itself over in the water dish. Its head was not touching the water, but at this point I got extremely worried. I examined it further, and noticed it looked a bit puffy around its neck. Like it was retaining a lot of water. It was having a hard time moving about, taking exaggerated steps and just not acting the same. Contacted my friend and the breeder at that point. 24 hours later it passed away.

The tort was similarly healthy.
No shell softening
No excretion from its eye or nose
eating fine
No constipation
No change in diet or temps

If someone could tell me what they think might have happened that would be great. Like I said the other tort has not shown any symptoms of what the other was doing. Same husbandry .. same everything .

I appreciate any help on the matter.. and on the ID for the Greek.

Thanks

 

[jknight16]

I am not a tremendously experienced keeper, but I have a good friend with 30+ years experience. Also talked with the breeder about the death. They were puzzled as well.
A basic rundown of how I kept the Sri.

Temps - 75 ambient, basking 90. UVB bulb
Humidity - 50-60%
Diet- ruffly 40% store bought "spring mix" 40% weeds from my yard 10% cactus
never without water
soak 2x weekly
exposure to natural sunlight 2x a week
Tort was about 6 months old.

Had two of them. The other is completely fine..
I came home for lunch one day to find one of the torts sleeping in its water dish. Alarmed but not worried at that point I placed it under its basking spot and went back to work. When I got home I noticed it had flipped itself over in the water dish. Its head was not touching the water, but at this point I got extremely worried. I examined it further, and noticed it looked a bit puffy around its neck. Like it was retaining a lot of water. It was having a hard time moving about, taking exaggerated steps and just not acting the same. Contacted my friend and the breeder at that point. 24 hours later it passed away.

The tort was similarly healthy.
No shell softening
No excretion from its eye or nose
eating fine
No constipation
No change in diet or temps

If someone could tell me what they think might have happened that would be great. Like I said the other tort has not shown any symptoms of what the other was doing. Same husbandry .. same everything .

I appreciate any help on the matter.. and on the ID for the Greek.

Thanks

Apparently I cant do simple addiction... 20% cactus

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi

 

[jknight16]

Anyone?

 

[Markw84]

Anyone?

My "guess".

The tortoises flipped over in the water dish and while trying to right itself, it pushes the ground with it's head. That puts the head under water and very possibly, got water in the lungs while upside down. When you found it, its head was more relaxed, and not in the water, but the damage had been done. The condition you describe with almost drunk type walking would be an indication of oxygen deprivation.

 

[Pearly]

Anyone?

I don't know about SriLankan, but my understanding has been that all babies regardless of species do best in at 80F. Your humidity wasn't that high though.... Hard to tell. Did you keep both babies together in this same enclosure? Were they both growing and putting on weight at similar rate??? Are SriLankans ten to be territorial? Is it possible that the weaker baby was under constant stress caused by the "bully"??? Or.... do RIs always manifest themselves with runny noses? People can get chest colds without nasa discharge.... was she eating, peeing/pooping ok? Dehydration maybe???? Something was making her want to sit in water dish. Swollen neck towards the end could have been a sign of very many things.

 

[jknight16]

My "guess".

The tortoises flipped over in the water dish and while trying to right itself, it pushes the ground with it's head. That puts the head under water and very possibly, got water in the lungs while upside down. When you found it, its head was more relaxed, and not in the water, but the damage had been done. The condition you describe with almost drunk type walking would be an indication of oxygen deprivation.

This very well could be the case.. The dish was very shallow, but I don't have any other explanation for what happened.

 

[jknight16]

I don't know about SriLankan, but my understanding has been that all babies regardless of species do best in at 80F. Your humidity wasn't that high though.... Hard to tell. Did you keep both babies together in this same enclosure? Were they both growing and putting on weight at similar rate??? Are SriLankans ten to be territorial? Is it possible that the weaker baby was under constant stress caused by the "bully"??? Or.... do RIs always manifest themselves with runny noses? People can get chest colds without nasa discharge.... was she eating, peeing/pooping ok? Dehydration maybe???? Something was making her want to sit in water dish. Swollen neck towards the end could have been a sign of very many things.

Yes they were both housed together.. and only the basking spot reached 90. Everywhere else in the setup was 75-80.
The one that passed away was the smaller of the 2. So I suppose a bulling scenario is plausible, but they both were eating fine. Up to the water incident it was going to the bathroom normally.
I suppose dehydration could be a factor.. but they always had water and soaked 2x a week.

 

[jknight16]

If someone could help ID the Greek above ,, that would be great!

Thanks
-J

 

[Markw84]

If someone could help ID the Greek above ,, that would be great!

Thanks
-J

If you could post a good picture of the plastron, it is often helpful for a good ID...

then we'll put a shout out to our Testudo expert... @HermanniChris

 

[jknight16]

Thanks for the help .. here's another picture.

 

[HermanniChris]

Beautiful tortoise, certainly a T. graeca but it's mosh likely a hybrid. Looks to be a T. g. ibera crossed with either T. g. terrestris or T. graeca graeca.

 

[jknight16]

Beautiful tortoise, certainly a T. graeca but it's mosh likely a hybrid. Looks to be a T. g. ibera crossed with either T. g. terrestris or T. graeca graeca.

Thanks for the help!