Greek tortoise keeps going to sleep all day & has stoped eating i

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Hi;

We have a Greek tortoise, We have had him for a couple of years and has been very active until recently when we moved the vivarium.

She has stopped eating and has started to sleep all day over the last week.

The temperature has been consistent at between 30C (during daytime) and 20 (at night) as well as the healthy diet and the environment.

The tortoise has never hibernated before as we where told they do not need to for the first 4 years.

Should I take this as a sign that the tortoise would like to hibernate? And reduce the temperate to 5 to 10 Centigrade? To help the tortoise hibernate?

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Regard

Duncan and family.

 

[peasinapod]

It is still ways to early for a tortoise to start hibernating and a tortoise starts to prepare itself weeks before that, 7 days shouldn't be enough. I think there might be another reason. I see she has some pyramiding, how high is your humidity, what are you feeding her etc.
and does she get outside time?

 

[ascott]

No, please don't do that....you will need to make sure all else/avenues are looked at...

I have to say, the first thing that popped in my head upon looking at your tort pic (other than you have a cute tort) is MBD , your tort has some of the normal physical characteristics...so I would first want to look at what type of uva/uvb lighting are you using? do you take your tort outdoors to absorb some natural sun time (so very important) and I would also visit your diet, what is a normal/typical diet for your tort..

For your reference;

Metabolic Bone Disease

Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) is a condition (or conditions) resulting in abnormal bone growth and/or repair. It encompasses the following conditions and syndromes; osteoporosis, osteomalacia, osteopenia, rickets, fibrous osteodystrophy, hypocalcemia and nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Causes:

MBD is generally the long term result of deficient dietary calcium and/or vitamin D3. This results in a negative calciumhosphorous ratio and is caused by the following:

Too little calcium or too much phosphorus in the diet.
The presence of substances in the diet that impair the absorption of calcium (e.g. oxalates, phytates etc)
A deficiency of vitamin D3 from the lack of exposure to proper amounts of UVB either from unfiltered sunlight or high quality UVB lighting.
Inadequate protein or excessive protein.
kidney or liver disease (which impair conversion of vitamin D to it's active from), small intestinal disease and/or parasites(disrupts absorption), and disease of the thyroid or parathyroid glands (produce hormones which affect calcium metabolism). These are minor contributors - most cases are nutritionally based.
Improper (too cool) basking temperatures temperatures impair digestion and therefore calcium absorption . It also inhibits the production of D3 by UVB light.


Diagnosis:

The diagnosis is usually made from a dietary and environmental history as well as clinical signs.

Dietary and Environmental History

A proper diet is critical to the health of the tortoise. In general you want a diet that's high in calcium, high in fiber, low in phosphorous and adequate in protein. This is discussed in more detail in the diet sections and in the pyramiding section.

The tortoise also needs a proper environment. Without this, even a perfect diet can result in MBD.

Some critical factors are UVB and moisture levels. However too much is just as harmful as too little. To strike a proper balance, gradients are needed. The tort needs a warm basking area with UVB, but it also requires a cooler section without UVB. This allows it to not only regulate its body temperature, but to also control its UVB exposure. The same is true for moisture. It needs a warm moist area as well as a cool dry spot.

Clinical Signs:

Weak limbs resulting in an unsteady gait and the inability to raise the plastron off the ground when walking.
A depressed posterior carapace giving rise to the appearance of being humped back.
The whole carapace may be flattened rather than domed.
Pyramiding
The shell appearing too small for its body.
Soft shell
Abnormal beak, often appearing like a parrot's beak or a duck's bill.
Bowed or deformed legs.
Anorexia
Lethargy
Constipation
Treatment and Prevention:

MBD is far easier to prevent than to treat. Some of the important issues are:

Dietary calcium. The best source of calcium is a varied diet. Grocery store greens are often lower in calcium than the weeds and grasses available in the wild. To make up for this it is often recommended that all food be dusted with phosphorous free calcium. However, too much calcium can be as bad as too little. Another problem that's often overlooked is that bone is made of a variety of minerals including magnesium and boron. Calcium powders don't provide these. Instead I prefer to keep cuttlebone with them at all times. Cuttlebone is high in calcium and the necessary trace minerals.
Low dietary phosphorous. If you follow the diet guidelines on this site, this will not be an issue.
Adequate Protein. Protein is essential for muscle growth. Young and active animals require more than older inactive tortoises.
High Fiber. This is important for intestinal health.
Exercise.
Correct Lighting. A quality UVB bulb or daily access to unfiltered sun is essential.
Proper Temperature
The above is not only important for prevention, but is also a critical part of treatment.

The following quote is from Mader in "Reptile Medicine and Surgery" page 390:

"All the medicine in the world will not correct MBD if husbandry, especially the diet, is not improved. Treatment consists of good nursing care with respect to handling, force-feeding, and providing a balanced fortified ration and UV light. "

 

[[email protected]]

It is still ways to early for a tortoise to start hibernating and a tortoise starts to prepare itself weeks before that, 7 days shouldn't be enough. I think there might be another reason. I see she has some pyramiding, how high is your humidity, what are you feeding her etc.
and does she get outside time?

Hi thanks for your response, We feed her , Dandelion leaves, cabbage, spinach, pellets in the evening, cucumber , roman lettuce, grated carrot (occasionally), grated apple(occasionally) dandelion flowers. We have tried other food recommended, but these seem to be her favorite.

We also give her calcium supplements as directed.

The humidity ranges dependent on the British weather, she has a 1.5cm by 60 cm vivarium with a strip lighting tube (suitable for reptiles) with a spot lamp for heat, temperate is between 15 and 28 centigrade.

We have just moved her into the conservatory where there is more natural light also, this is where she has seemed to want to go into hibernation???

She get to go out in the garden in her run which is 2m square pretty much every day. Apart from when she started not to wake up or eat in the morning, This is when I started to get concerned.

 

[[email protected]]

No, please don't do that....you will need to make sure all else/avenues are looked at...

I have to say, the first thing that popped in my head upon looking at your tort pic (other than you have a cute tort) is MBD , your tort has some of the normal physical characteristics...so I would first want to look at what type of uva/uvb lighting are you using? do you take your tort outdoors to absorb some natural sun time (so very important) and I would also visit your diet, what is a normal/typical diet for your tort..

For your reference;

Metabolic Bone Disease

Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) is a condition (or conditions) resulting in abnormal bone growth and/or repair. It encompasses the following conditions and syndromes; osteoporosis, osteomalacia, osteopenia, rickets, fibrous osteodystrophy, hypocalcemia and nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism.

Causes:

MBD is generally the long term result of deficient dietary calcium and/or vitamin D3. This results in a negative calciumhosphorous ratio and is caused by the following:

Too little calcium or too much phosphorus in the diet.
The presence of substances in the diet that impair the absorption of calcium (e.g. oxalates, phytates etc)
A deficiency of vitamin D3 from the lack of exposure to proper amounts of UVB either from unfiltered sunlight or high quality UVB lighting.
Inadequate protein or excessive protein.
kidney or liver disease (which impair conversion of vitamin D to it's active from), small intestinal disease and/or parasites(disrupts absorption), and disease of the thyroid or parathyroid glands (produce hormones which affect calcium metabolism). These are minor contributors - most cases are nutritionally based.
Improper (too cool) basking temperatures temperatures impair digestion and therefore calcium absorption . It also inhibits the production of D3 by UVB light.


Diagnosis:

The diagnosis is usually made from a dietary and environmental history as well as clinical signs.

Dietary and Environmental History

A proper diet is critical to the health of the tortoise. In general you want a diet that's high in calcium, high in fiber, low in phosphorous and adequate in protein. This is discussed in more detail in the diet sections and in the pyramiding section.

The tortoise also needs a proper environment. Without this, even a perfect diet can result in MBD.

Some critical factors are UVB and moisture levels. However too much is just as harmful as too little. To strike a proper balance, gradients are needed. The tort needs a warm basking area with UVB, but it also requires a cooler section without UVB. This allows it to not only regulate its body temperature, but to also control its UVB exposure. The same is true for moisture. It needs a warm moist area as well as a cool dry spot.

Clinical Signs:

Weak limbs resulting in an unsteady gait and the inability to raise the plastron off the ground when walking.
A depressed posterior carapace giving rise to the appearance of being humped back.
The whole carapace may be flattened rather than domed.
Pyramiding
The shell appearing too small for its body.
Soft shell
Abnormal beak, often appearing like a parrot's beak or a duck's bill.
Bowed or deformed legs.
Anorexia
Lethargy
Constipation
Treatment and Prevention:

MBD is far easier to prevent than to treat. Some of the important issues are:

Dietary calcium. The best source of calcium is a varied diet. Grocery store greens are often lower in calcium than the weeds and grasses available in the wild. To make up for this it is often recommended that all food be dusted with phosphorous free calcium. However, too much calcium can be as bad as too little. Another problem that's often overlooked is that bone is made of a variety of minerals including magnesium and boron. Calcium powders don't provide these. Instead I prefer to keep cuttlebone with them at all times. Cuttlebone is high in calcium and the necessary trace minerals.
Low dietary phosphorous. If you follow the diet guidelines on this site, this will not be an issue.
Adequate Protein. Protein is essential for muscle growth. Young and active animals require more than older inactive tortoises.
High Fiber. This is important for intestinal health.
Exercise.
Correct Lighting. A quality UVB bulb or daily access to unfiltered sun is essential.
Proper Temperature
The above is not only important for prevention, but is also a critical part of treatment.

The following quote is from Mader in "Reptile Medicine and Surgery" page 390:

"All the medicine in the world will not correct MBD if husbandry, especially the diet, is not improved. Treatment consists of good nursing care with respect to handling, force-feeding, and providing a balanced fortified ration and UV light. "

We have a UVB 1m stip light on timer, and a heat bulb for basking (on a temo stat, There is also a Infra red (no light) bulb for heating vivarium at night on min temperature for night time.

I am going to to try getting some further supplements from the pet shop and see if these help.

Thank

Duncan and family

 

[[email protected]]

The humidity currently is 60% here in England.

I am going to increase the calcium and see if I can get a larger vivarium and change the type of bedding we use, which is currently straw.