Growth rate question

[livingenzyme]

First of all, I apologize ahead of time for those who think this is too newbish of a question. I tried looking up the answer but couldn't find a definite answer.

I've had my sulcata for about a year and a half. Throughout the summer months, he had the entire yard to wander and graze. I have a tracking device on him so I never worried about losing him. In the cold months, I have him inside eating home grown grass and dandelions I got from the market. He's very active. I sometimes let him wander around in the kitchen area with my dogs. They do fine with each other.

Anyway, the point is he is growing painfully slow. Measuring his shell only, he's about 4.5 inches. Here are a couple pictures of him a couple months ago. He's suppose to be 2.5 years old.

I'm just worried because other people tell me at that age he's suppose to be bigger.

He seems fine and very active. His diet is mostly grass.

 

[Livingstone]

Supplement with some mazuri and the growth rate will pick up. You are feeding very good and natural things, there's nothing wrong with the growth rate. I would say that as long as its a happy lil tort thats all that matters.

 

[Tom]

Growth rates are highly variable. My Daisy was about that size at that age and I considered her a very slow grower. In stark contrast, my 5 month old hatchlings, who have been raised totally differently, are now around 4". We are all learning as we go, but in most cases I have found that the slow growers were kept too dry and dehydrated as babies, before we even get them in most cases. It happens at the breeders.

On the bright side, if you seriously up the hydration, humidity and moisture AND start feeding Mazuri, mixed in with the greens a couple of times a week, most of them will start sprouting. Daisy has she's put on 3" in six months and more than doubled her weight.

Here is a care sheet I made for babies, but you can do it for an older one too. http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies

Last thing, I would use a bit more variety in the colder months indoors. Spring mix, might serve you well for this, if you don't have access to some safe weeds of the right type.

 

[CELLMASS]

my tort is about 2.5 maybe younger and he maybe twice the size of that. his diet consists of romain, red leaf lettuce, and occasional honey dew melon.

i bought an 11 month old bearded dragon morph, blood red morph or something. anyways he shed a total of 2 times over the year i had him. so he was about 2 years young and he still looked like a hatchling! i ended up selling him due to apartment living, just thought i'd share.

i dont really believe in the "mist till they drip" solution as a resolution, or "oh" offer him more water. i did that for the first two months and never once did i catch my tort drinking water. does he pee? oh ya, he pee's like an alcoholic everymorning. is he dehydarted, not at all. after all the desert they come from is really dry. my torty does have a natural burrow that i started for him, and i do keep the top moist due extreme temps in arizona.

also what are the temps in your backyard?

 

[Tom]

my tort is about 2.5 maybe younger and he maybe twice the size of that. his diet consists of romain, red leaf lettuce, and occasional honey dew melon.

i bought an 11 month old bearded dragon morph, blood red morph or something. anyways he shed a total of 2 times over the year i had him. so he was about 2 years young and he still looked like a hatchling! i ended up selling him due to apartment living, just thought i'd share.

i dont really believe in the "mist till they drip" solution as a resolution, or "oh" offer him more water. i did that for the first two months and never once did i catch my tort drinking water. does he pee? oh ya, he pee's like an alcoholic everymorning. is he dehydarted, not at all. after all the desert they come from is really dry. my torty does have a natural burrow that i started for him, and i do keep the top moist due extreme temps in arizona.

also what are the temps in your backyard?

Babies don't live in the "desert". They live in humid hiding spots like burrows, root balls and leaf litter. Further, no one, including me or the people who write the books on these torts, has any idea what the life of a baby sulcata in the wild entails. They are extremely secretive and almost never even seen, even by the people who live there. The kind of thinking that you have chosen to share is what led to 30 years of pyramided tortoises and a whole lot of dead hatchlings due to dehydration and its complications months down the road.

Giving hatchlings and babies drinking water, spraying their shells, keeping them hydrated and keeping them humid prevents pyramiding and internal organ damage due to chronic dehydration. There is no downside to it. How smooth is YOUR tortoise? How many have you raised? I've raised dozens and I did it all wrong for 20 years. Only in the last few years have I and others figured out the "right" way. Your diet is also sorely lacking in substance and variety.

Are you just trying to stir up controversy? Livingenzyme's thread asking for advice is not the place to do it. If you wish to continue this discussion, lets take it to the debatable section and we can compare notes, facts and pictures there.

 

[Az tortoise compound]

Livingenzyme:
There is no downside to more water/ moisture. There is a down side to a mixture of low temps and water/ moisture. If the temps are up and the recommendations of diet and misting laid out above are followed your tortoise will grow like a weed.

Cellmass:
" i dont really believe in the "mist till they drip" solution as a resolution, or "oh" offer him more water. i did that for the first two months and never once did i catch my tort drinking water."

There are two things wrong there. Just because you didn't see him drink doesn't mean it didn't happen. 2 months is the blink of an eye for a tortoise.

I am not saying you need to take every new idea that comes along as gospel. You should at least investigate a little and look at the results of the difference in growth and health when the "Spray them until they drip, 3-4 times a day" theory is followed.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

or "oh" offer him more water. i did that for the first two months and never once did i catch my tort drinking water.

Drinking water is a vulnerable time to an animal. It requires the animal to temporary shift focus from its surroundings, bring itself down to the water level and risk attack/predation. They won't always drink in front of you, especially if they're at all unsure about anything. I had a bird that didn't drink in front of me for about a year. Does that mean that he didn't drink? No. He just did it when I wasn't around and he felt safe.


Back to the topic... I think Tom's advice is good solid advice. Everything he's told you is based (as he said) on his many years of personal experience and experimentation to check his ideas. Even if his advice is not perfect yet, it is much sounder than a lot of other people's opinions scattered across the internet.

I've never used it myself, but many who use Mazuri have seen their torts go through a growth spurt. Since you're worried about size, Mazuri is a great option for you. Personally I wouldn't worry about size much. Your tort looks pretty smooth, alert, and outwardly healthy (based on only two pictures, so maybe you know differently but he looks good to me). If he's healthy, then he'll catch up size-wize. Besides, he's going to be big for the next 50+ years, enjoy him while he's still a little guy.

I'd worry though about having him permanently duct-taped. I think it could cause some damage to the shell over time, especially during a growth spurt. Maybe a smaller tracking device would work better? I used some pretty small tracking devices made by Marshall when I was still doing falconry.

http://marshallradio.com/en/north-american-falconry-products/itemlist/category/73-transmitters

They're pricey (and worth every penny to a falconer), but I bring it up to just give you an idea that if you must have a tracker, then there are other options out there. I bet there are similar trackers that you could find on eBay or craigslist for cheaper than these. A low-tech option is perhaps a dogtag with your name and phone number on it, or you could even get him microchipped.

May we ask where you're located?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Livingenzyme:

Welcome to the forum.

Do you take off the tape when the tortoise comes in? I'm thinking it might be harmful to him or pretty uncomfortable, to have it always on him as he grows.

 

[CELLMASS]

wheew catching flak as i knew i would. my torts shell is getting smoother since ive adopted him/her. and my tort does have a very humid natural dug burrow outside, as i stated. my tort is very healthy, growing very rapidly, and loves me. so debate with yourself and your little man syndrome. maybe tom and the rest of you should pay attention to your tort's needs and not a silly forum. with 3000+ posts i think you should know by now to listen, watch, and give your animals there needs. every animal, same species or not, has different needs.

this is america, not the united tortoise forum, everyone can have and give opinions. dont call me out just because you have little man syndrome and 3000 posts, if anything get a life and "raise" your animals. i was simplay stating what i do, right or not.

do you think in the wild they actually go out to the only water hole the sahara has to offer, are you crazy? a tortoise with no predotory skills and barely the defense of hiding in its shell? really? they havent evolved and survived this long for no reason.

your right they they burrow were it is more humid undergorund, but they scavenge during the day. or as you would put it, graze. a sulcata will eat anything that tastes good to him. ask the plants around my backyard. you say graze i say scavenge.

thats what makes the world go round tom.

 

[Kristina]

CELLMASS, please keep your posts to the topic of this thread, and avoid making personal statements about other members. Every one here is entitled to their opinion and to share their experiences.

 

[Jacqui]

Okay, time out! Let's not drag this very serious question by Livingenzyme down into a debate. Let's stick on subject and PLEASE all of you, respect that each of us can have different thoughts, ideas, and beliefs without any of us being wrong.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

wheew catching flak as i knew i would. my torts shell is getting smoother since ive adopted him/her. and my tort does have a very humid natural dug burrow outside, as i stated. my tort is very healthy, growing very rapidly, and loves me. so debate with yourself and your little man syndrome. maybe tom and the rest of you should pay attention to your tort's needs and not a silly forum. with 3000+ posts i think you should know by now to listen, watch, and give your animals there needs. every animal, same species or not, has different needs.

this is america, not the united tortoise forum, everyone can have and give opinions. dont call me out just because you have little man syndrome and 3000 posts, if anything get a life and "raise" your animals. i was simplay stating what i do, right or not.

do you think in the wild they actually go out to the only water hole the sahara has to offer, are you crazy? a tortoise with no predotory skills and barely the defense of hiding in its shell? really? they havent evolved and survived this long for no reason.

your right they they burrow were it is more humid undergorund, but they scavenge during the day. or as you would put it, graze. a sulcata will eat anything that tastes good to him. ask the plants around my backyard. you say graze i say scavenge.

thats what makes the world go round tom.

Please don't hijack someone else's thread. All of this could have been said in a private message between you and him. Let's just try to give answers to livingenzyme's question. That is what this thread is about after all.

 

[Tracy Gould]

Hi livingenzyme welcome to the Forum. I would not worry to much about ur Torts size as I have read time after time that slow and steady grow is good rapid growth is bad, as long as u are feeding a good healthy balanced diet and ur tort is healthy and active there is nothing to worry about. I am also a bit concerned about the Tape on the tort, Chipping ur tort is not expensive and will link him to ur address.

 

[tczar]

my 4 year old is now 20 inches long, 28 lbs., and has a great smooth shell. he existed on mazuri in winter in a southern facing window. dandelions and grass in the spring and summer outside. he was soaked at least 3 times a week in warm water. be sure to have a heat source on cold or cloudy days. I used a simple bankers light, and they went right to it when turned on, it was the perfect height and was positioned outside their living area, hanging over the edge.

 

[Az tortoise compound]

A 4 year old that is 20 inches long???? Wow!

 

[shelber10]

no way 20 inches that does not sound healthy

 

[Kristina]

Only 28 lbs at 20"? A 20 inch Sulcata should weigh at least 100, in my opinion. Are you positive you have the length and weight correct?

 

[tczar]

A 4 year old that is 20 inches long???? Wow!

can we visit your compound next time we r in phx?

 

[Annieski]

A 4 year old that is 20 inches long???? Wow!

can we visit your compound next time we r in phx?

Your tortoise sure is pretty. I guess everything is BIGGER in Texas!

 

[Az tortoise compound]

You are welcome to call when you are in town. That would be fine, schedule permitting. Have you had your Sulcata since a hatchling? You have a beautiful tortoise but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a 20" tortoise that is only 28lbs and 4 years old. How did you measure the length? A straight line or "over the top" That might be where I'm confused.