Gupta and Mazuri and Protein???

[BrinnANDTorts]

I just started feeding Gupta Mazuri twice a week and ever since then he has started to grow like a weed cause it has a lot more protein than the mustard , collard, turnip greens and kale.
When he was just eating greens with really high calcium he wasn't really growing much
Why do people find Mazuri so good to feed their tortoises? It has just as much protein and as fiber and is mainly soybean.
I have always heard soy and protein is bad for them...
Just curious because I don't wanna feed him too much protein and soy
Here is a link to the Mazuri nutrition information.

 

[Weda737]

I feed it a couple times a week mixed with baby lettuces and grazing. I really don't think personally that fast growth is an issue. If the body didn't have the means to do so, it wouldn't grow. Maybe Mazuri is the closest we can get to an optimal diet. But that's just my thoughts on the matter. I just don't see a problem, it's not like chickens and steroids. They grow so fast their legs can't support their weight and they go cripple, I know, I had one that fell off a tyson truck in the road.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Maybe it would be better to feed them vegetables that have protein in them, vegetables like asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, watercress ?
Just thinking here is all, I just can't figure that soy is all that good for them..
I agree that every animal needs some form of protein (amino acids are essential to grow and health), whether its a very small amount or where as in a redfoots case where they eat much more protein.

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Its just hard to know the right thing to do when everything you read says something different. The www.sulcata-station.org says that you shouldn't feed your tortoises dark leafy greens (like Kale, Mustard, Collard, and Turnip), mazuri or any commercial food like Mazuri, avoid soy completely.

Most people on this forum feed their Sulcata dark leafy greens almost everyday
Maybe all of the information out there says what it says about diet because its still believed that too much protein is what causes pyramiding...
After reading all of Tom's threads over pyramiding and seeing the amazing results that it is creating I have my serious doubts, I also think it is bad for them too have large amounts of protein (like over 15%) maybe I am completely wrong. I think that would cause them to grow too fast.
I'm just really interested to hear people's thoughts about diet and commercial foods and amount of protein in the diet of a sulcata

 

[Tom]

I used to be one of the people telling everyone to avoid "un-natural" prepared, processed foods. And I don't find the ingredient list very impressive either.

After a bunch of very experienced and accomplished keepers, including Richard Fife, told me how great it is and how well it works for them, I decided to give it a try. I use it as insurance to make sure they are getting all the balanced nutrition that they should be getting. It is also a good standby for those days when your weeds dry up and your produce wilts earlier than you thought it would. I think of it sort of like a vitamin supplement.

And protein is not the villain we all once thought it was. They need SOME protein in their diet. Occasional plant protein is good for them, in my opinion. I think Mazuri is a good way to provide this, but there is nothing wrong with legumes either. It is not NECESSARY to feed Mazuri, but I do find it to be beneficial in many ways. A healthy tortoise can certainly be raised without it.

 

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Well Spike was born in May 2009 (from what the breeder told me) and he is a large 10" and 7 lb. 2 1/2 year old now. He was fed on hays, grazing grasses and weeds, greens, cactus, and mazuri. Raised up outside in sunny Florida's Southern sunshine. I think he is good size for his age but I dont really know what a 2 1/2 year old sulcata's average size and weight should be though. Mazuri was part of his diet and not a stable. Mixing them all is what I was told (from the breeders advice) to be the best diet to make sure he will get everything he needs. Dont forget that extra calcium like Tom mentioned. I have always gave extra supplements for all my reptiles over the years.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Gupta seems to really like the Mazuri and I don't think its a bad thing to feed them but I do think almost all information that you read on the web at different sights that are still in the mind set that protein (too fast of growth) and calcium levels are the cause of pyramiding and other little factors. What puzzles me then is if this is what they have decided causes pyramiding and they use these different dietary techniques to fix pyramiding and not pay attention to the humidity then don't their Sulcata still pyramid? Which would completely discredit their thinking on what causes pyramiding
I have yet to come across a care sheet that follows that thinking which pictures of smooth sulcata to go along with it like you have Tom. If anyone finds one I would be very interested in seeing it.

In contraste to Mazuri you have Zoo Med grassland tortoise food which I have to admit the ingredients impresses me more than Mazuri , what do yall think?


Ingredients
Suncured Oat Hay, Suncured Timothy Hay, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Whole Ground Wheat, Escarole, Endive, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, Dandelion Greens (dried), Sodium Bicarbonate, Soy Lecithin, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (heat stable cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Aspergillus oryzae), Yeast Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Garlic Extract, Anise Extract, Cassia Extract (Chinese), Ginger Extract, Horseradish Extract, Juniper Extract, Natural Flavoring, Marigold (petal extract), Yucca schidigera (whole plant powder), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of stabilized Vitamin C), Zinc Methionine Complex, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement (Retinyl Acetate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (source of Vitamin B5), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

Analysis

Crude Protein (Min) 9.0%Crude Fat (Min) 2.0%Crude Fiber (Max) 26.0%Moisture (Max) 13.0%Ash (Max) 10.0%Calcium (Min) 0.9%Calcium (Max) 1.3%Phosphorus (Min) 0.4%Sodium (Max) 0.3%

I'm not promoting it, I'm just asking opinions. Just curiosity on what the experienced people think

---

Well Spike was born in May 2009 (from what the breeder told me) and he is a large 10" and 7 lb. 2 1/2 year old now. He was fed on hays, grazing grasses and weeds, greens, cactus, and mazuri. Raised up outside in sunny Florida's Southern sunshine. I think he is good size for his age but I dont really know what a 2 1/2 year old sulcata's average size and weight should be though. Mazuri was part of his diet and not a stable. Mixing them all is what I was told (from the breeders advice) to be the best diet to make sure he will get everything he needs. Dont forget that extra calcium like Tom mentioned. I have always gave extra supplements for all my reptiles over the years.

Your tortoise is pretty, I remembering seeing pictures of him. Did you feed him Mazuri everyday?

 

[jesst]

I feed morla the grassland tortoise diet a couple of times a week. It has more fiber than protein in it which is why I like it, she seems to like it also. When you look at the pellets you can see the grasses in it, another reason I like it better than mazzuri. Just my opinion....

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

I used to be one of the people telling everyone to avoid "un-natural" prepared, processed foods. And I don't find the ingredient list very impressive either.

After a bunch of very experienced and accomplished keepers, including Richard Fife, told me how great it is and how well it works for them, I decided to give it a try. I use it as insurance to make sure they are getting all the balanced nutrition that they should be getting. It is also a good standby for those days when your weeds dry up and your produce wilts earlier than you thought it would. I think of it sort of like a vitamin supplement.

And protein is not the villain we all once thought it was. They need SOME protein in their diet. Occasional plant protein is good for them, in my opinion. I think Mazuri is a good way to provide this, but there is nothing wrong with legumes either. It is not NECESSARY to feed Mazuri, but I do find it to be beneficial in many ways. A healthy tortoise can certainly be raised without it.

I was told by a lot of people on this forum when I first joined and read it in many places that commercial foods should be avoided completely, said Gupta looked swollen and was probably because I was feeding him commercially foods (I use to feed him the zoo med grassland) but stopped. I am thinking maybe now I mix mazuri in with the grassland twice a week with calcium and Vitamin D powder and see how that works out.. I like the zoo med cause its more fiber and its mainly hay (not soy) and less protein but still has some and lots of vitamins. I don't want to completely stop feeding him Mazuri though...not right now anyways.

---

I feed morla the grassland tortoise diet a couple of times a week. It has more fiber than protein in it which is why I like it, she seems to like it also. When you look at the pellets you can see the grasses in it, another reason I like it better than mazzuri. Just my opinion....

I agree, I'm thinking maybe a mixture too just because so many people have used Mazuri and its really worked for them. I am still not sure why cause its just soy and vitamins

 

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Yeah I think Zoo Med's Grassland Tortoise Food has the best ingredients. But most people claim that their torts will not even touch it. Mazuri on the other hand is what zoo's feed theirs and is eaten more from people that feeds is to their tort over Zoo Med's. I have also heard that you can mix it in Mazuri so you get alittle of both . I also like the fact that Zoo Med's has the extra probiotic's for a healthier immune booster.

I also did tons of research on pyramiding and every website has just about a totally different outake on the causes. From diet, supplements, to humidity. I think it's a little of both, imo.

Thanks, I dont feed Spike Mazuri yet because I have to order some. But Im going to here soon. Now the breeder that I bought him from fed him Mazuri as a part of his diet though. So I know he will eat it. Notice his pyramiding in the pics or my avatar? Not sure what caused that but I did not raise him from hatching and did not find this forum until last month. One of the best tortoise forums on the web, imo It's a life saver and I have also told people on a FB tortoise group about it. They need this forum to know more and to get better advice then what they get elsewhere. So crazy stuff they get told. Like letting their sulcatas out in the snow to graze and get sunshine is ok, WTH? I was like you have to stop getting bad advice elsewhere and come join tortoiseforum before you kill your tort.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Yeah I think Zoo Med's Grassland Tortoise Food has the best ingredients. But most people claim that their torts will not even touch it. Mazuri on the other hand is what zoo's feed theirs and is eaten more from people that feeds is to their tort over Zoo Med's. I have also heard that you can mix it in Mazuri so you get alittle of both . I also like the fact that Zoo Med's has the extra probiotic's for a healthier immune booster.

I also did tons of research on pyramiding and every website has just about a totally different outake on the causes. From diet, supplements, to humidity. I think it's a little of both, imo.

Thanks, I dont feed Spike Mazuri yet because I have to order some. But Im going to here soon. Now the breeder that I bought him from fed him Mazuri as a part of his diet though. So I know he will eat it. Notice his pyramiding in the pics or my avatar? Not sure what caused that but I did not raise him from hatching and did not find this forum until last month. One of the best tortoise forums on the web, imo It's a life saver and I have also told people on a FB tortoise group about it. They need this forum to know more and to get better advice then what they get elsewhere. So crazy stuff they get told. Like letting their sulcatas out in the snow to graze and get sunshine is ok, WTH? I was like you have to stop getting bad advice elsewhere and come join tortoiseforum before you kill your tort.

I am going to do the mixing thing and slowly put more of the zoo med and less of the mazuri until he just likes it one day lol
Off topic but that reminds me of that episode of The Office where Jim trains Dwight to need to eat a breath mint every time his computer turns off and on. So funny (of course only if you like The Office)

I was on carolinesupply when I found some probiotic supplements that I meant to start feeding Gupta every now and then just so he is stronger and more resistant and healthier , this is probably a better way to give them to him cause it has all that other good stuff too. I think if I feed him Mazuri and Zoo med that there will be no need for an addition vitamin powder supplement, just calcium with Vitamin D. What do y'all think?

 

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

I used to be one of the people telling everyone to avoid "un-natural" prepared, processed foods. And I don't find the ingredient list very impressive either.

After a bunch of very experienced and accomplished keepers, including Richard Fife, told me how great it is and how well it works for them, I decided to give it a try. I use it as insurance to make sure they are getting all the balanced nutrition that they should be getting. It is also a good standby for those days when your weeds dry up and your produce wilts earlier than you thought it would. I think of it sort of like a vitamin supplement.

And protein is not the villain we all once thought it was. They need SOME protein in their diet. Occasional plant protein is good for them, in my opinion. I think Mazuri is a good way to provide this, but there is nothing wrong with legumes either. It is not NECESSARY to feed Mazuri, but I do find it to be beneficial in many ways. A healthy tortoise can certainly be raised without it.

I was told by a lot of people on this forum when I first joined and read it in many places that commercial foods should be avoided completely, said Gupta looked swollen and was probably because I was feeding him commercially foods (I use to feed him the zoo med grassland) but stopped. I am thinking maybe now I mix mazuri in with the grassland twice a week with calcium and Vitamin D powder and see how that works out.. I like the zoo med cause its more fiber and its mainly hay (not soy) and less protein but still has some and lots of vitamins. I don't want to completely stop feeding him Mazuri though...not right now anyways.

---

I feed morla the grassland tortoise diet a couple of times a week. It has more fiber than protein in it which is why I like it, she seems to like it also. When you look at the pellets you can see the grasses in it, another reason I like it better than mazzuri. Just my opinion....

I agree, I'm thinking maybe a mixture too just because so many people have used Mazuri and its really worked for them. I am still not sure why cause its just soy and vitamins

---

I think the soy could be a filler or a perservitive to help keep it together and last longer. I also had mix idea from different people about the 2. But when you feed them as part of the diet and not just a stable would be fine. And I would not supplement them with any extra supplement because they already have the extra vitamins and minerals in them. I supplement Spikes greens with a calcium and vitamin D3 supplement and when I get some Mazuri Tortoise food, I will feed it on one of the other days without supplementing.

 

[TortBrain]

My vet also phrase that Mazuri is good. He had come across alot who fed Mazuri have tortoises with good sizes.
To me, everything should be given moderately.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

I think the soy could be a filler or a perservitive to help keep it together and last longer. I also had mix idea from different people about the 2. But when you feed them as part of the diet and not just a stable would be fine. And I would not supplement them with any extra supplement because they already have the extra vitamins and minerals in them. I supplement Spikes greens with a calcium and vitamin D3 supplement and when I get some Mazuri Tortoise food, I will feed it on one of the other days without supplementing.

Thats exactly what I thought when I first saw the ingredients list for the Mazuri, its nothing but a soy filler (cause they also use this in dog food a lot which I won't feed my dogs) that's why I posted this thread completely confused

 

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Yeah I think Zoo Med's Grassland Tortoise Food has the best ingredients. But most people claim that their torts will not even touch it. Mazuri on the other hand is what zoo's feed theirs and is eaten more from people that feeds is to their tort over Zoo Med's. I have also heard that you can mix it in Mazuri so you get alittle of both . I also like the fact that Zoo Med's has the extra probiotic's for a healthier immune booster.

I also did tons of research on pyramiding and every website has just about a totally different outake on the causes. From diet, supplements, to humidity. I think it's a little of both, imo.

Thanks, I dont feed Spike Mazuri yet because I have to order some. But Im going to here soon. Now the breeder that I bought him from fed him Mazuri as a part of his diet though. So I know he will eat it. Notice his pyramiding in the pics or my avatar? Not sure what caused that but I did not raise him from hatching and did not find this forum until last month. One of the best tortoise forums on the web, imo It's a life saver and I have also told people on a FB tortoise group about it. They need this forum to know more and to get better advice then what they get elsewhere. So crazy stuff they get told. Like letting their sulcatas out in the snow to graze and get sunshine is ok, WTH? I was like you have to stop getting bad advice elsewhere and come join tortoiseforum before you kill your tort.

I am going to do the mixing thing and slowly put more of the zoo med and less of the mazuri until he just likes it one day lol
Off topic but that reminds me of that episode of The Office where Jim trains Dwight to need to eat a breath mint every time his computer turns off and on. So funny (of course only if you like The Office)

I was on carolinesupply when I found some probiotic supplements that I meant to start feeding Gupta every now and then just so he is stronger and more resistant and healthier , this is probably a better way to give them to him cause it has all that other good stuff too. I think if I feed him Mazuri and Zoo med that there will be no need for an addition vitamin powder supplement, just calcium with Vitamin D. What do y'all think?

Yeah I have seen that probiotic supplement. Well Zoo Med Grassland Tortoise food has it in it already so you dont have to use it plus extra benificial bacteria. I dont know if I would use a plain pure probiotic supplement on a baby tort because Probiotics can be tough stuff and might be too hard on him.

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I think the soy could be a filler or a perservitive to help keep it together and last longer. I also had mix idea from different people about the 2. But when you feed them as part of the diet and not just a stable would be fine. And I would not supplement them with any extra supplement because they already have the extra vitamins and minerals in them. I supplement Spikes greens with a calcium and vitamin D3 supplement and when I get some Mazuri Tortoise food, I will feed it on one of the other days without supplementing.

Thats exactly what I thought when I first saw the ingredients list for the Mazuri, its nothing but a soy filler (cause they also use this in dog food a lot which I won't feed my dogs) that's why I posted this thread completely confused

Well Mazuri is made by Purina

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Yeah I have seen that probiotic supplement. Well Zoo Med Grassland Tortoise food has it in it already so you dont have to use it plus extra benificial bacteria. I dont know if I would use a plain pure probiotic supplement on a baby tort because Probiotics can be tough stuff and might be too hard on him.

See I was thinking that it would be more important to use it on a baby when they are more vulnerable than on the stronger more resistant large adults... but then again I am just assuming that the babies are more vulnerable than the adults which could be false all together so I am not sure.
But more important where are you seeing the probiotics and beneficial bacteria in the ingredients list lol I am having a hard time reading and understand everything in it except for the like obvious stuff

 

[FADE2BLACK_1973]

Btw, Tom has a great thread on how to raise baby sulcata's. Read through that thread will also help if you have not already. Yeah I admit that Im a lurker before I join a forum...lol

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Btw, Tom has a great thread on how to raise baby sulcata's. Read through that thread will also help if you have not already. Yeah I admit that Im a lurker before I join a forum...lol

Ive read that thread and printed it out and framed it lol jk about the frame part

 

[terribrown71]

I just started feeding the mazuri to Arthur mixed with his greens and he loves it...but where can I get the grassland tortoise food? I would like to try it especially if I can go locally to get it. The only thing with him is I have to be careful and give it every other day cause he goes nuts over it and only eats part of his greens. He picks the mazuri pellets out like we do the marshmellows in lucky charms...lol

 

[TortandHare]

So I have had Stewie on a diet of varied greens since I brought him home about a year ago. I recently tried the Zoo Med grassland food and he will not touch it. Picks around it and just walks over it until it is sawdust. I talked to my local pet store about the Mazuri and they said they are looking for a local disributer and will call me when it comes in. Any tips on getting him to actually try it? I mixed the other in with his favorite greens and he was not interested in any way shape or farm.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

I just started feeding the mazuri to Arthur mixed with his greens and he loves it...but where can I get the grassland tortoise food? I would like to try it especially if I can go locally to get it. The only thing with him is I have to be careful and give it every other day cause he goes nuts over it and only eats part of his greens. He picks the mazuri pellets out like we do the marshmellows in lucky charms...lol

Petsmart sells it

---

So I have had Stewie on a diet of varied greens since I brought him home about a year ago. I recently tried the Zoo Med grassland food and he will not touch it. Picks around it and just walks over it until it is sawdust. I talked to my local pet store about the Mazuri and they said they are looking for a local disributer and will call me when it comes in. Any tips on getting him to actually try it? I mixed the other in with his favorite greens and he was not interested in any way shape or farm.

Gupta wouldnt touch it either when I first put it in there , but now he loves it mixed with a little mazuri piled on top of his greens
I just kept putting it in his cage and putting him next to it and one day he just ate it.
U can just buy mazuri off eBay, they have fast free shipping or Amazon
Lots and lots of online places sell mazuri and then u can just mix the grassland into the mazuri and he gets both
Hope that helps