Kardia22

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Hey Everyone,

Just wondering if anyone had some insight on how RI and antibiotics affect a Greek Tortoise. My little one is about 4 (we think) and has a RI. I took her to the vet and got her checked up and got 10 days of antibiotics. I have been soaking her every morning and feeding her as normal. She is 6 days into the 10 treatment. The first 3 days she seemed to act pretty normal. However the past 3 days she has not pooped in her bath or in her enclosure. She is eating but not much at all. I also notice she has been sleeping on her cool side more often. Just wondering if anyone has notice some of these things while treat your little ones for an RI. I know their metabolism is slower but she was an everyday pooper.

Do the antibiotics make them constipated?
Also does it make them warmer? or not hungry?

I've been keeping her enclosure a little warmer just but 5-6 degrees because I assume it would help her fight the infection. If anyone has a little more insight to the normal behaviors of a tortoise fighting an RI please let me know! Thank you
 

Lyn W

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I don't have any experience of this but I believe meds can affect their appetite, and if they eat less they may poop less, but I don't know for sure if meds make them constipated and I would also be surprised if they affected their body temps because they need external heat.
Are you giving her luke/baby warm soaks?
I think I would try a little cucumber which has a laxative effect to see if that helps but lets ask some members with good medical knowledge @Yvonne G @zovick or @ZenHerper @TeamZissou
What are the temps in the enclosure now and do you know the name of the meds she's on? That may help them help you.
 

Tom

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Hey Everyone,

Just wondering if anyone had some insight on how RI and antibiotics affect a Greek Tortoise. My little one is about 4 (we think) and has a RI. I took her to the vet and got her checked up and got 10 days of antibiotics. I have been soaking her every morning and feeding her as normal. She is 6 days into the 10 treatment. The first 3 days she seemed to act pretty normal. However the past 3 days she has not pooped in her bath or in her enclosure. She is eating but not much at all. I also notice she has been sleeping on her cool side more often. Just wondering if anyone has notice some of these things while treat your little ones for an RI. I know their metabolism is slower but she was an everyday pooper.

Do the antibiotics make them constipated?
Also does it make them warmer? or not hungry?

I've been keeping her enclosure a little warmer just but 5-6 degrees because I assume it would help her fight the infection. If anyone has a little more insight to the normal behaviors of a tortoise fighting an RI please let me know! Thank you
Anti-biotics kill all the benficla bacteria in their gut as well as the harmful bacteria. It should really only be used as a last resort. This can make them lose appetite and have GI trouble for a long time.

What symptoms did you see that made you think your tortoise had an RI?

Unlike people, tortoises don't just get sick for no reason. There has to be something wrong in the environment, and it is usually cold temperatures. Did your vet address the CAUSE of the RI and solve that problem? Treating the symptoms is futile if the cause is not discovered and corrected.
 

mark1

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what type of antibiotic ? how is it administered ? affecting the gut would depend on the antibiotic ..... 99% of gut bacteria is anaerobic , many types of antibiotics are ineffective against anaerobic bacteria .........

while i do understand Tom's point , treating an animal with an antibiotic , anti-fungal or antiviral is not treating the symptoms ....... bacteria , viruses and fungi are causes, not a symptom .........

sick turtles should not be expected to thermoregulate properly...... they should be setup in such a way as to keep their body temp near optimal range without giving them a choice ...... been my experience a sick turtle will settle in a cold spot ,, become more lethargic and just stay there .........
 

Yvonne G

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Adding to what Mark said, a sick tortoise should not have 'a cool side.' The enclosure should be kept at about 85°F day and night while on antibiotics.
 

TammyJ

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Can we see a picture of her and the setup?
 

Kardia22

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Anti-biotics kill all the benficla bacteria in their gut as well as the harmful bacteria. It should really only be used as a last resort. This can make them lose appetite and have GI trouble for a long time.

What symptoms did you see that made you think your tortoise had an RI?

Unlike people, tortoises don't just get sick for no reason. There has to be something wrong in the environment, and it is usually cold temperatures. Did your vet address the CAUSE of the RI and solve that problem? Treating the symptoms is futile if the cause is not discovered and corrected.
She started with head bobbing and arms in and out. Then her eyes and nose started to leak. I’ve only had her for a month so the vet believes I got her sick.
 

Kardia22

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what type of antibiotic ? how is it administered ? affecting the gut would depend on the antibiotic ..... 99% of gut bacteria is anaerobic , many types of antibiotics are ineffective against anaerobic bacteria .........

while i do understand Tom's point , treating an animal with an antibiotic , anti-fungal or antiviral is not treating the symptoms ....... bacteria , viruses and fungi are causes, not a symptom .........

sick turtles should not be expected to thermoregulate properly...... they should be setup in such a way as to keep their body temp near optimal range without giving them a choice ...... been my experience a sick turtle will settle in a cold spot ,, become more lethargic and just stay there .........
She is in .6 mg of Enroflox

I only got her a month ago from an expo so the vet felt it may have been something she was already harboring, then the stress of a new home.

Also the first two nights in her current enclosure she was on soaked coconut mulch which is when I noticed the head and arm bobbing. It was far too much moisture for her.

Currently the mulch is dry and the enclosures humidity is at 40% always. Temp under basking light (which is a MVB) is 100-110° and the cool side stays around 80°. She also has a tube light for uvb through the length of her enclosure. She had two source of water at all times and eats a diet of collard greens, mustard greens and dandelion greens. Timothy hay at times for extra fiber. She gets calcium powder 3 times a week. She only gets food 5 times a week. I soak her 5 days a week.

She climbs and burrows and has two hids for protection. The vet did not think it was something in her enclosure causing the RI but I’m open to suggestions if someone feels there is something making her sick.
 

mark1

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I only got her a month ago from an expo so the vet felt it may have been something she was already harboring, then the stress of a new home.

your vet may be correct , they can be ill for a very long time before they show symptoms , even much longer than a month , i'd say a year to years is possible....... stress facilitates disease and or an underlying disease becoming symptomatic ..... which is why when an animal is sick , husbandry is automatically a suspect........ husbandry is probably the most common cause of stress to a captive animal.........

enrofloxacin is an antibiotic that is for the most part ineffective against anaerobic bacteria (gut bacteria)..... how is it being administered ? shots are painful could affect behavior .... oral admin can be stressful , could affect behavior ....... i would think orally administering injectable baytril could affect the stomach and appetite , injectable baytril contains alchohol and potassium hydroxide , i can't imagine that would not affect gut function , appetite and behavior.......
 

mark1

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you have a mercury vapor light for basking , and a uvb fluorescent tube ? do you have a meter to read the amount of uvb the tortoise is being exposed to? uvb in excess can be harmful and a source of stress........

you are giving these shots in different spots ? personally i never use the back legs , there are instances where it's not a good idea to use the back legs for injections , i don't believe enrofloxacin is one of those instances, i just never do , at one time it was something that was never done ...... if i were to use the back legs , especially for enrofloxacin i'd use all four legs so as to not give a shot in the same place twice .......

has your tortoises' symptoms improved? the shots were every 2nd day? enrofloxacin injections are painful , that would be a reason to see a change in behavior ....... if thursday was day 6 you have 1 or 2 shots to complete the course ? my opinion is complete the course and see how it works out ....... how sick was the tortoise when you took him to the vet ?
 

Kardia22

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2 days left, and I’ve been switching legs. She has improved yes! She has pooped and ate more! Seems to be getting some energy back. Her eyes have cleared up but the head and arm bobbing is still there.

Yes so she has UVB in 3/4 of her tank but all 10 inches from her shell.
 

Kardia22

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Enclosure pics
 

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