Hatchling Sully is dark brown and seems blah...

darlingtiffy

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Hello all...again. :) I am feeling slightly crazy with my baby Tiny Tim. You can look back at my two previous threads and see what I've gone through since getting Timmy several weeks ago. Cliff notes version is: he was a surprise. We weren't set up for a tiny hatchling. He wasn't doing so hot while we were trying to get him set up. We thought we got everything under control. Then we found out his breeder was doing things wrong when Tim seemed to have leg and eye issues. Panicked. Finished purchasing all the things to ensure temps and humidity were where we thought they were. Thought we got everything under control. Now we're here. Sigh.

Timmy was pretty yellow when we got him and all the way up until two days ago. He is in a giant tote bin (around 4.5x2.5ish) with eco earth substrate. We keep it very moist and mist it 3-5 times a day just to be sure the humidity stays up. He has a big log hide and a plastic flower pot hide. The big log is halfway buried and covered with zoomed moss so he has an interesting place to climb and hide in. He likes to snuggle down in the moss and nap. He has a large slate tile and a water dish (I know they're bad, but until I get a terra cotta saucer it works) that I filled with rocks and natural colored fish tank gravel so it's not too deep. He never goes in it.

We live in sunny and humid Florida, so Tim stays on the back patio in his tote majority of the day. Half sun and half shade. He gets a morning spa with a soak and cuddle before we move him outside. We also take him out to forage 2-3 times a day. Temps out there range from high 80's to high 90's with humidity from 86-96 percent. We recently got a temp and humidity gauge so we know his enclosure humidity stays around 80 to 99 percent. When I get home at 4:30, he gets a soak if he looks like he might need it, or to wake him up, and some forage time, along with a food change since it wilts. He seemed to usually be hungry about then. At night he comes in and gets a che on a clamp lamp attached to a jumpstart thermostat. Temps stay constant at night between 82 and 87 with between 80-90 percent humidity. (I put the gauge by him to see what it's like where he is in the enclosure as I only have one. The thermostat probe stays in the middle at ground level as the che goes on one side.) The lid of the tote and some towels ensure the humidity stays in and only a 6" or so gap for the che is left open on that side.

The problem is 2 days ago Timmy was in his log and wouldn't come out. He missed his lunch forage, (Hubs works from home and cares for him during the day) but Dad just thought it was no big deal. It was pretty hot that day, hotter than normal, but no where over what he can handle. (think cooler than basking spot temps) This was before we had the gauge though so I'm not sure if the humidity got low.

When I came home, I took him out and he was dark brown on his head and neck and also some on his legs. I soaked him and did our afternoon routine, but he was not interested in eating and just went back to bed. The next morning same thing. He's pooping fine in his baths so he must be eating, but I don't see it. He was being a picky piglet previously and had quite a thing for the radicchio in the spring mix (no spinach) he insisted on eating. I always feed him salad style with fresh grass, clover, aster, and dandelion mixed in, but he started refusing so I went to just spring mix and ordered Mazuri Diet which came in today. He won't touch it. He doesn't even try to eat now. Before if I had my hand on his tile he'd come running, now he doesn't even want to be on his tile. He just sleeps, even when we take him out to forage. He'll walk some, take a few bites and then got to sleep.

I know from my searches on here that he could just be stained from the eco earth or he could just be becoming a darker guy, but I'm worried. I have tried so hard to do everything right. Every time I think I have it under control and we have a routine something seems to go wrong. :( What is going on with my tort and what else can I do to help him?
 

wellington

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It sounds like everything is correct. However, I would be very cautious on putting him on the porch. It's too hard to control the heat of the sun along with the heat of lights, etc. Babies do sleep a lot, but they should eat several times a day.
I would not do the porch time. Just leave the enclosure where you can control the heat and just do the outside time when you can. I would put some piedialyte in the soak water and keep trying all the different foods. Chopping them up small and spritz with water.
The bad news is the breeder may have done too much wrong and the little one just may not thrive. That's on the breeder not you.
Keep up what your doing, change those couple things and hopefully he will come around.
The brown is probably staining. My leopard hatchlings got It bad from the coir and bark I use.
 

Tom

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A pic of the tortoise and enclosure might help us to give better tips.

I see a few potential problems:

  1. Are you soaking daily? What does he weigh?
  2. Outside all day is not good for babies. They just don't do well when housed that way. Climate, temperatures and humidity don't matter. They don't do well housed outside all day in their native range.
  3. I wouldn't use moss. They eat it and it can cause an impaction. Symptoms for impassion look just like what you are seeing, but so does failure to thrive due to dehydration after hatching.
  4. If its not any of these things, it might be because of the treatment it received from the breeder.
  5. If the tortoise isn't using the water bowl, there is a problem with the water bowl. There are many reasons why they might not want to go near it, but whatever the reason, you need to do something different ASAP. They need to feel comfortable with their water dish so that they will use it.
Please feel free to ask questions.
 

darlingtiffy

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A pic of the tortoise and enclosure might help us to give better tips.

I see a few potential problems:

  1. Are you soaking daily? What does he weigh?
  2. Outside all day is not good for babies. They just don't do well when housed that way. Climate, temperatures and humidity don't matter. They don't do well housed outside all day in their native range.
  3. I wouldn't use moss. They eat it and it can cause an impaction. Symptoms for impassion look just like what you are seeing, but so does failure to thrive due to dehydration after hatching.
  4. If its not any of these things, it might be because of the treatment it received from the breeder.
  5. If the tortoise isn't using the water bowl, there is a problem with the water bowl. There are many reasons why they might not want to go near it, but whatever the reason, you need to do something different ASAP. They need to feel comfortable with their water dish so that they will use it.
Please feel free to ask questions.

He is soaked for 15 mins, at minimum, every morning in water that is between 90 and 95 degrees.Generally he poops about 2 times while soaking. :) He is also soaked sometimes in the evening.

I haven't weighed him yet. I need to get a scale, but prioritized the enclosure items- thermostat, temp gauge, che and clamp lamp, etc. first.

We were doing the patio because it's a hassle to fight the a/c all day in the house and I didn't want to have to run another light for him. He will not, for any reason, wander around in the dark. His breeder said he left the uv lights on 24/7 and just gave them lots of hides, but Timmy wouldn't even use a hide for a while after we got him. I had to change around the hides several times before we got the current ones that he likes and uses.

The outside temps stay lovely and warm and the humidity is always high, so we've just misted his tank a lot to keep the humidity in it up. We don't have the money or ability to create a closed system for in the house as of yet. We move him around the porch as the day gets hotter and he ends up under the completely covered porch by about lunch time, depending on cloud cover and temps.

He does crawl through his water bowl occasionally, or he did when he was more active, but he wouldn't sit or hang out in it. Both the water dish and the tile are on the "hot side" of the enclosure. (This is also the side the che goes on at night.) I am getting a terra cotta saucer hopefully by the weekend. My local stores didn't have any in stock and amazon seems too high priced, for once. lol. I do have to say I used small plastic saucers for food and water prior and he refused to even look at them. He will only eat off a tile or rock.

He is pretty picky, and deeply sniffs everything before he'll takes a bite. If it doesn't smell right he won't bite it. I've never seen him try to bite the moss or anything other than certain grass/greens. He does like to snuggle down in the moss for naps though. If he was impacted would he be pooping normally?

I have included pictures of the enclosure after I finished it. I have since added moss around the water bowl to limit the amount of eco earth that can get dragged into it. We utilize the lid to create shade and trap humidity while outside, and at night for the humidity and to keep in heat.

I'm just so confused at what's happened to him. He was yucky when we got him, then we got him perked up, but then the eye issue happened, then we got him perked up and happy again, and now this. It's like we just can't win... :(

20180916_173329.jpg 20180916_173354.jpg
 

Tom

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...Timmy wouldn't even use a hide for a while after we got him. I had to change around the hides several times before we got the current ones that he likes and uses.

I can offer some insight into this. Small sulcatas have a strong aversion to any sort of hide, hole in the ground, or burrow. I speculate that this is a survival mechanism to help them avoid all the wild predators that make those holes and would like to eat a little sulcata. In time, usually two or three weeks, they realize there is no scary monster in that hide, and they begin using it as their own.
 

darlingtiffy

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I can offer some insight into this. Small sulcatas have a strong aversion to any sort of hide, hole in the ground, or burrow. I speculate that this is a survival mechanism to help them avoid all the wild predators that make those holes and would like to eat a little sulcata. In time, usually two or three weeks, they realize there is no scary monster in that hide, and they begin using it as their own.

That makes sense. He would book it out of the hides if I put him in them and would sit on top of the log, but not go in it for a while. That's still one of his favorite places.

You have me very worried about impaction...Would he be pooping okay if he were impacted?? Because he seems to be pooping fine. I see him go 3-4 times a day and it's a large, dark turd, to be blunt. lol. He did have some white poo last night, but that's the first variation I've seen....

If it's a dehydration issue, can we reverse it? He never drinks in his soaks, but I give him his food very wet. I gather up the yard stuff in a measuring cup, chop and rinse it, then add the rinsed and chopped spring mix. All of it is in about a cup of water to get a final rinse and mix and then I dump it on the tile so it's very wet. I do this for two reasons. One to avoid the food wilting fast, and two to be sure he gets water as I've never seen him "drink". He will duck his head in his soak, but not really look like he's drinking. Should I do what was suggested earlier and put pedialyte in his soak and maybe his water dish? I have been soaking him every evening since this blahness started just to try and help. And I have added an additional forage time through the wet grass in the morning to help stimulate him and maybe get him to eat some more. Is there anything else I can do? I'm very worried about hatchling failure as well. His shell isn't soft at all though....
 

Tom

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As Barb explained, if the problem is due to incorrect care at the breeders place and the resultant damage, there is nothing anyone can do. Either the baby will pull through or it won't.

What you can do is fix the problems I noted. Get the baby into the correct indoor environment that is temperature controlled and lit properly. The porch is okay for an hour or two a day, but the baby should be mostly indoors. Get rid of the moss. You don't need it. It does nothing. Get the right water and food dishes and sink them into the substrate. Any Home Depot or Lowes should sell these. Soak for 30-40 minutes and keep the water warm throughout. Make a humid hide. Half logs are too open for this purpose. Use a dark plastic tub of some sort, flip it upside down, cut out a small door hole, and dampen the substrate under it.

Other than that you'll have to wait and see.
 

Minority2

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He is soaked for 15 mins, at minimum, every morning in water that is between 90 and 95 degrees.Generally he poops about 2 times while soaking. :) He is also soaked sometimes in the evening.

I haven't weighed him yet. I need to get a scale, but prioritized the enclosure items- thermostat, temp gauge, che and clamp lamp, etc. first.

We were doing the patio because it's a hassle to fight the a/c all day in the house and I didn't want to have to run another light for him. He will not, for any reason, wander around in the dark. His breeder said he left the uv lights on 24/7 and just gave them lots of hides, but Timmy wouldn't even use a hide for a while after we got him. I had to change around the hides several times before we got the current ones that he likes and uses.

The outside temps stay lovely and warm and the humidity is always high, so we've just misted his tank a lot to keep the humidity in it up. We don't have the money or ability to create a closed system for in the house as of yet. We move him around the porch as the day gets hotter and he ends up under the completely covered porch by about lunch time, depending on cloud cover and temps.

He does crawl through his water bowl occasionally, or he did when he was more active, but he wouldn't sit or hang out in it. Both the water dish and the tile are on the "hot side" of the enclosure. (This is also the side the che goes on at night.) I am getting a terra cotta saucer hopefully by the weekend. My local stores didn't have any in stock and amazon seems too high priced, for once. lol. I do have to say I used small plastic saucers for food and water prior and he refused to even look at them. He will only eat off a tile or rock.

He is pretty picky, and deeply sniffs everything before he'll takes a bite. If it doesn't smell right he won't bite it. I've never seen him try to bite the moss or anything other than certain grass/greens. He does like to snuggle down in the moss for naps though. If he was impacted would he be pooping normally?

I have included pictures of the enclosure after I finished it. I have since added moss around the water bowl to limit the amount of eco earth that can get dragged into it. We utilize the lid to create shade and trap humidity while outside, and at night for the humidity and to keep in heat.

I'm just so confused at what's happened to him. He was yucky when we got him, then we got him perked up, but then the eye issue happened, then we got him perked up and happy again, and now this. It's like we just can't win... :(

View attachment 252032 View attachment 252033

You can easily convert any table and or tub into a closed chamber style setup. Just use the lid that came with the tub or fashion one from materials such as plywood, particle board, insulation foam, corrugated cardboard, plexiglass, or any other solid materials you can think of. Cut sections of the material and make sure the dimensions are small enough to allow you to rest your lighting fixtures directly above the top without them falling over to create a sealed affect. Cover the cut up sections in aluminum foil and glue/tape them down if needed.
 

darlingtiffy

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Thank you all for the comments and advice! He perked up some yesterday and was eating on his own at lunchtime and later in the afternoon. He ate a lot. It was super exciting! When I came home to do our evening routine he was walking around and was pretty perky. After his soak and a food change he kept wandering. I swear he looked like he hadn't seen his enclosure before. :) I didn't change anything around, I just removed the moss from his log, his water dish, and from the top of the flower pot hide. He kept stopping and sleeping while he was wandering, so I put him in front of the food a few times and he finally started nibbling for me.

He was up and walking around this morning as well. I'm really hoping we are on the right track and he'll keep improving. We are looking into ways to make him an enclosed system this weekend.
 

darlingtiffy

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As Barb explained, if the problem is due to incorrect care at the breeders place and the resultant damage, there is nothing anyone can do. Either the baby will pull through or it won't.

What you can do is fix the problems I noted. Get the baby into the correct indoor environment that is temperature controlled and lit properly. The porch is okay for an hour or two a day, but the baby should be mostly indoors. Get rid of the moss. You don't need it. It does nothing. Get the right water and food dishes and sink them into the substrate. Any Home Depot or Lowes should sell these. Soak for 30-40 minutes and keep the water warm throughout. Make a humid hide. Half logs are too open for this purpose. Use a dark plastic tub of some sort, flip it upside down, cut out a small door hole, and dampen the substrate under it.

Other than that you'll have to wait and see.

Silly question...Since we're trying to make everything work with what we have/what we've already ordered, can I use an LED light bar I have from an old fish tank? It's low watts and low heat and it's small, probably only 3-4 inches long. It suctions to whatever to hold it in place. I just though if I suctioned it high up on the side of the tote, not on the lid so it's shining directly on him, maybe it would work for light? All I'm looking for is some light as we already have the che in a clamp lamp, and he goes outside several times a day for the uv and foraging. Is that a dumb thought? :)
 

Tom

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Silly question...Since we're trying to make everything work with what we have/what we've already ordered, can I use an LED light bar I have from an old fish tank? It's low watts and low heat and it's small, probably only 3-4 inches long. It suctions to whatever to hold it in place. I just though if I suctioned it high up on the side of the tote, not on the lid so it's shining directly on him, maybe it would work for light? All I'm looking for is some light as we already have the che in a clamp lamp, and he goes outside several times a day for the uv and foraging. Is that a dumb thought? :)
I'm using LEDs over my tortoises in my closed chambers. They work well. You don't need indoor UV if the tortoise is getting real sunshine a few times a week, but you do need a basking lamp.
 

Minority2

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The clamps on these brooder style lamps are unreliable. They're known for failing and dropping down into the enclosures they're suppose to light up. Fire damage, burn damage, and glass from broken bulbs have been known to occur. These lamp fixtures should be suspended in the air using chains or hooks to prevent the cord from being damaged.

Suctioning cups can lose gripping and potential fall due to high heat and humidity. Industrial strength adhesive patches would be a safer option in my opinion.

I also agree that you'll need a basking lamp. Outdoor ground temperatures can differ depending on numerous factors. Trying to find an ideal basking spot with the right temperatures to place your outdoor enclosure on is tedious to say the very least. Best not to leave it up to chance and get them a proper basking lamp. Incandescent flood bulbs bought in bulk is relatively cheap.
 

darlingtiffy

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I'm using LEDs over my tortoises in my closed chambers. They work well. You don't need indoor UV if the tortoise is getting real sunshine a few times a week, but you do need a basking lamp.

Thank you!! I was worried that it might not be okay because it was for a fish tank. I'm a little paranoid. lol.
 

darlingtiffy

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The clamps on these brooder style lamps are unreliable. They're known for failing and dropping down into the enclosures they're suppose to light up. Fire damage, burn damage, and glass from broken bulbs have been known to occur. These lamp fixtures should be suspended in the air using chains or hooks to prevent the cord from being damaged.

Suctioning cups can lose gripping and potential fall due to high heat and humidity. Industrial strength adhesive patches would be a safer option in my opinion.

I also agree that you'll need a basking lamp. Outdoor ground temperatures can differ depending on numerous factors. Trying to find an ideal basking spot with the right temperatures to place your outdoor enclosure on is tedious to say the very least. Best not to leave it up to chance and get them a proper basking lamp. Incandescent flood bulbs bought in bulk is relatively cheap.

Okay so this might sound dumb...but I was asking about the led light because I'm trying to move him inside permanently. Like you suggested, I was just going to utilize the lid, the current CHE bulb, and my uv light to create the closed chamber. Do I have to get a different bulb or will my CHE work?? I was going to move it to the center of the tote, right over the slate tile so he'd have a basking spot and more consistent temps in the entire enclosure. (It currently goes over the "hot" side of the enclosure at night.)

I actually brace the arm of the clamp on the tote when I use it so it doesn't fall. I cut a slit in the side for the clamp part and then the arm is braced on the tote keeping it steady. It has an adjustable nut that keeps the hood and bulb in place as well. This setup allows the bulb to be down under the lid of the tote, which is necessary to generate an even heat that is actually hot enough. If that makes sense. lol. I may cut a hole and suspend it in the tank, depending on how it works in it's new location.

I am going to reinforce the suction cups somehow to be sure they don't fall in. however the sides of the tote at the top are very smooth and the suction cup for the thermostat sensor sticks perfectly.

My main concern was making sure the UV lights would be safe and that the CHE would be enough for his basking spot. :)
 

Minority2

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Pair the ceramic heat emitter with a thermostat. The indoor enclosure should constantly be above 80F at all times. The basking lamp 95-100F should be on a time set for 12-14 hours to mimic day and night cycles.

Your current way of setting up the clamp lamp is unnecessary in a closed chamber system because a closed chamber will not require the added complexity of positioning different fixtures in different positions and angles inside of your indoor enclosure. It's much easier in a closed chamber setup. All you have to do is rest them right on top of the material you're using as a lid. And because there isn't any large gaps heat and humidity will not easily escape from the enclosure. A smaller wattage (40-45) incandescent flood bulb and ceramic heat emitter (60-80) is should be more than enough to get the required basking, warm, cold, and overnight low temperature levels.

An example of a similar closed chamber setup that can be achieved with plastic film. A strip light fixture can do the same:
https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tweaks-on-my-closed-chamber.70057/

It's actually more work to leave a top or lid fully intact. You'll still need to cut holes for cables. You'll still need to make sure lighting fixtures are shining directly below the enclosure and not at an angle. Space between tortoises and hung light fixtures may be too close for comfort. Hanging lighting fixtures above the lid also has the advantage of allowing your hood fixtures to project more light and heat over a wider area.

It's entirely up to you whether you want to have additional safety measures or not. Suction cups will require routine checking and pressing down to retain suction properties.

When you say UV lights are you referring to your LED aquarium lights? Remember that you'll still need to bring them outside if you're not using a reptile rated UVB strip light. A separate outdoor enclosure is strongly suggest. Less work not having to haul the main enclosure back and forth. Work smart.
 

Tom

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Okay so this might sound dumb...but I was asking about the led light because I'm trying to move him inside permanently. Like you suggested, I was just going to utilize the lid, the current CHE bulb, and my uv light to create the closed chamber. Do I have to get a different bulb or will my CHE work?? I was going to move it to the center of the tote, right over the slate tile so he'd have a basking spot and more consistent temps in the entire enclosure. (It currently goes over the "hot" side of the enclosure at night.)

I actually brace the arm of the clamp on the tote when I use it so it doesn't fall. I cut a slit in the side for the clamp part and then the arm is braced on the tote keeping it steady. It has an adjustable nut that keeps the hood and bulb in place as well. This setup allows the bulb to be down under the lid of the tote, which is necessary to generate an even heat that is actually hot enough. If that makes sense. lol. I may cut a hole and suspend it in the tank, depending on how it works in it's new location.

I am going to reinforce the suction cups somehow to be sure they don't fall in. however the sides of the tote at the top are very smooth and the suction cup for the thermostat sensor sticks perfectly.

My main concern was making sure the UV lights would be safe and that the CHE would be enough for his basking spot. :)

There are four temperatures to be concerned with: Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low. There are many ways to generate an maintain the correct temperatures and lighting, with with an open top in a cool room, it will be difficult.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. You can use smaller or larger wattage bulbs to help you get the desired temperature under them too. Do not use "spot" type bulbs. These concentrate too much heat into too small of an area and desiccate the carapace which causes pyramiding.
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species like sulcatas, but let the temp drop into the 60s at night for a Testudo species.
  3. Light. I use florescent tubes or LED strips for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the hardware store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. If the room where the enclosure sits if well lit, and the tortoises behavior is normal, you don't "need" this, but its usually beneficial.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. In addition to not being an effective UV source, the coil type cfl bulbs can sometimes damage reptile eyes, so I would not use those.
This might offer some tips too:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
 

darlingtiffy

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There are four temperatures to be concerned with: Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low. There are many ways to generate an maintain the correct temperatures and lighting, with with an open top in a cool room, it will be difficult.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. You can use smaller or larger wattage bulbs to help you get the desired temperature under them too. Do not use "spot" type bulbs. These concentrate too much heat into too small of an area and desiccate the carapace which causes pyramiding.
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species like sulcatas, but let the temp drop into the 60s at night for a Testudo species.
  3. Light. I use florescent tubes or LED strips for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the hardware store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. If the room where the enclosure sits if well lit, and the tortoises behavior is normal, you don't "need" this, but its usually beneficial.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. In addition to not being an effective UV source, the coil type cfl bulbs can sometimes damage reptile eyes, so I would not use those.
This might offer some tips too:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

I guess I was just getting confused by whether or not I needed an actual "basking bulb" or if I could just use the CHE and jumpstart thermostat I have over his tile with the led light? I already added the led strip I already had from a fish tank to the enclosure and it seemed to really help him stay active after the light got dim. It's in the middle of the tote, over the slate tile. Like I said, he will not move around in the dark at all. I don't know if this is normal baby behavior, or if it's because the breeder left the UVs on 24/7 and he was never in the dark.

Normally, I wake him up at 7 to start our morning routine, but because today is Saturday we slept in and he didn't get messed with till almost 9:00. When I went to get him, he was awake and on his state tile looking around. He was due for new food and I feel like he was looking for the manager to discuss the service in the establishment. lol! He got his soak and then went out to forage and he ate! He was walking and munching for a good while and he was soaking up the sun too. It was super exciting!

When it was time to put him back in the tote I decided to take all the advice and suggestions and institute them on a small scale since we're not ready to move him inside yet. He is currently on our covered porch so the Florida heat and humidity can help us keep the temps up and we won't have to fight the a/c inside. The led strip is on since the tote lid is on. I left a 4-5 inch gap that I can look in and that allows the clamp lamp to sit inside the tote. The CHE is pointed at the side of the slate tile. It's a large tile so I put his food and larger piece of turtlebone on the far side, and left the side with the CHE bare to allow him to bask. He will not eat off of anything but a tile (I think the breeder just chucked food into the totes) so this is the only option. I also took out the water dish and added a small plastic saucer that he can walk through until we get the terra cotta one tomorrow. The jumpstart thermostat probe is on the CHE side of the tile with the tip touching the slate. The temp is set at 95 and it's reading 91.7. The hygrometer (sp?) is on the far side of the tote and is reading 85.6 degrees and 87 percent humidity. This is the same set up I use at night when he's inside, just without the led lights on so he has a day and night cycle.

He has been super active and eaten a ton today! He will wander his tote and then come back to the tile and munch. He's like a new tortoise. :) He's also stopping on the CHE side of the tile, pulling in his little legs, and dozing. I am so so so excited to see him perking up like this!

Besides the question of the basking bulb, my only other question is whether I should let him "sleep" later instead of waking him up in the morning when I get ready for work? Could he maybe be thrown off by being woken up, soaked, and taken outside that early?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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I guess I was just getting confused by whether or not I needed an actual "basking bulb" or if I could just use the CHE and jumpstart thermostat I have over his tile with the led light? I already added the led strip I already had from a fish tank to the enclosure and it seemed to really help him stay active after the light got dim. It's in the middle of the tote, over the slate tile. Like I said, he will not move around in the dark at all. I don't know if this is normal baby behavior, or if it's because the breeder left the UVs on 24/7 and he was never in the dark.

Normally, I wake him up at 7 to start our morning routine, but because today is Saturday we slept in and he didn't get messed with till almost 9:00. When I went to get him, he was awake and on his state tile looking around. He was due for new food and I feel like he was looking for the manager to discuss the service in the establishment. lol! He got his soak and then went out to forage and he ate! He was walking and munching for a good while and he was soaking up the sun too. It was super exciting!

When it was time to put him back in the tote I decided to take all the advice and suggestions and institute them on a small scale since we're not ready to move him inside yet. He is currently on our covered porch so the Florida heat and humidity can help us keep the temps up and we won't have to fight the a/c inside. The led strip is on since the tote lid is on. I left a 4-5 inch gap that I can look in and that allows the clamp lamp to sit inside the tote. The CHE is pointed at the side of the slate tile. It's a large tile so I put his food and larger piece of turtlebone on the far side, and left the side with the CHE bare to allow him to bask. He will not eat off of anything but a tile (I think the breeder just chucked food into the totes) so this is the only option. I also took out the water dish and added a small plastic saucer that he can walk through until we get the terra cotta one tomorrow. The jumpstart thermostat probe is on the CHE side of the tile with the tip touching the slate. The temp is set at 95 and it's reading 91.7. The hygrometer (sp?) is on the far side of the tote and is reading 85.6 degrees and 87 percent humidity. This is the same set up I use at night when he's inside, just without the led lights on so he has a day and night cycle.

He has been super active and eaten a ton today! He will wander his tote and then come back to the tile and munch. He's like a new tortoise. :) He's also stopping on the CHE side of the tile, pulling in his little legs, and dozing. I am so so so excited to see him perking up like this!

Besides the question of the basking bulb, my only other question is whether I should let him "sleep" later instead of waking him up in the morning when I get ready for work? Could he maybe be thrown off by being woken up, soaked, and taken outside that early?
It is normal for them to not be active in the dark. This is a very diurnal species.

Yes, you need a basking lamp. The CHE is fine for maintaining ambient heat, but they still need a simulated "sun" that emits light and heat for basking. I've tried raising them without a basking lamp and it doesn't work well. Not for this species. Dean is the only person I've seen do it without a basking lamp and have any success. I don't know what he's doing differently yet, but until I, and many other people can duplicate his results, I'm not ready to recommend his methods. I did something similar and they survived, but they weren't doing all that great. Dean and I have talked about it, and I don't know what the difference is. We were both using clutch mate babies that I hatched. See my experiment here and compare it to Dean's "Bond Girls" thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/

I don't ever "wake them up". They get up and do their tortoise things when they are ready.
 

darlingtiffy

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It is normal for them to not be active in the dark. This is a very diurnal species.

Yes, you need a basking lamp. The CHE is fine for maintaining ambient heat, but they still need a simulated "sun" that emits light and heat for basking. I've tried raising them without a basking lamp and it doesn't work well. Not for this species. Dean is the only person I've seen do it without a basking lamp and have any success. I don't know what he's doing differently yet, but until I, and many other people can duplicate his results, I'm not ready to recommend his methods. I did something similar and they survived, but they weren't doing all that great. Dean and I have talked about it, and I don't know what the difference is. We were both using clutch mate babies that I hatched. See my experiment here and compare it to Dean's "Bond Girls" thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/

I don't ever "wake them up". They get up and do their tortoise things when they are ready.

Okay. Do you use the same dome style light fixture for it? Or what fixture so you use? Is it an indoor flood bulb or outdoor? My amazon search was a tad confusing as far as bulb options. lol.

The problem is that I have to leave for work at 8:20 am, and although the hubs helps, I am the primary and most capable caretaker. Not an insult to the hubs, he just works from home and can't be as attentive as I am when I'm home. That means if I don't do the wake up, soak and forage routine before I leave, Tim won't get it until much later in the day.

The morning routine consists of replacing food and cleaning out dishes, along with other housekeeping tasks, while Tim's at the spa getting his soak. I guess I could just do the food and water without bothering him and then the hubs can soak him when he has time around mid-morning or lunch time and then take him out to forage. It may be a control thing. I may be a little ocd. lol. :p

Would it be bad for him to wait that long to be soaked and go out? Right now he goes out at 7:30ish, lunchtime, and 4:45ish for 15 to 45 minutes. He usually gets soaked around 7ish and 4:30ish. I just want to make sure he gets enough sunshine and excercise. :)
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
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Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
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Okay. Do you use the same dome style light fixture for it? Or what fixture so you use? Is it an indoor flood bulb or outdoor? My amazon search was a tad confusing as far as bulb options. lol.

The problem is that I have to leave for work at 8:20 am, and although the hubs helps, I am the primary and most capable caretaker. Not an insult to the hubs, he just works from home and can't be as attentive as I am when I'm home. That means if I don't do the wake up, soak and forage routine before I leave, Tim won't get it until much later in the day.

The morning routine consists of replacing food and cleaning out dishes, along with other housekeeping tasks, while Tim's at the spa getting his soak. I guess I could just do the food and water without bothering him and then the hubs can soak him when he has time around mid-morning or lunch time and then take him out to forage. It may be a control thing. I may be a little ocd. lol. :p

Would it be bad for him to wait that long to be soaked and go out? Right now he goes out at 7:30ish, lunchtime, and 4:45ish for 15 to 45 minutes. He usually gets soaked around 7ish and 4:30ish. I just want to make sure he gets enough sunshine and excercise. :)

I use this style fixture: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Woods-3...-10-in-Reflector-and-Bulb-Guard-166/301132854. I take off the clamp and the title guard wire thingies. Never use the clamps on these. They fail and it will burn your tortoise or burn the house down. Hang them from overhead.

I use this style of bulb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKHU76/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Set your CHE on the thermostat. Set your basking and LED on a timer. Give fresh water and food before you leave. Soak when you get home, or whenever hubby gets around to it.
 
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