Health implications of rapid growth in Aldabra tortoises

[marty4dive]

Ok I've waited long enough. Someone on this forum must have an opinion or is in possession of some facts that can speak to rapid growth rates in Aldabras as it relates to any health implications. The only thing I think I've read is that rapid growth could possibly lead to legs unable to support rapid weight gain. Can anyone speak to this or add their experience to this issue? Since Greg pointed out that my Aldabras, Toothless and Jett had wide growth lines that probably indicated rapid growth I've attempted to connect that to discerning whether my torts were heading for trouble. Any takers? Marty

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Someone on this forum must have an opinion or is in possession of some facts that can speak to rapid growth rates in Aldabras as it relates to any health implications.

* That is such a complex question for me because i have no foundation in biology, etc. I will simply say that the closer we can duplicate growth levels to that of the ones growing in the native islands the better they would be. My thoughts are it is similar to a very heavy human that over eats, therefor the more medical issues and complications they are likely to have. I have seen so many grown so fast and kept in the wrong environment that they have obvious complications, mainly because they are restricted without ample room for proper exercise abilities. The results have been lazy and poor muscle development because they never use them. Literally i have seen many larger captive raised aldabras that could not walk more than ten foot without having to plop down because they had no muscle tone or strength to go any further (Alfa had this problem). As far as bone development based on rapid or induced growth, I do not know if anyone on this forum is capable of answer that with any certainty. I speak with many that are involved in the Aldabra community, one that i call a friend is Sam Pascuci of Florida Iguana & Tortoise Breeders, he may have a well informed opinion about this question. He is a member here and is one of, if not the most knowledgeable giant tortoise keepers i have ever met.

I truly understand your concern and respect your passion, hopefully we can get answers.

 

[EricIvins]

These animals are designed for fast growth. They are island dwellers that have evolved ( This goes for any Reptile really, but is accelerated in Island dwellers ) to grow fast in the good times and slow with the bad times. The growth itself is not the issue. The issue lies in both exercise, and captive stimulation, along with proper husbandry.

The goiter, foot, joint, and other issues will disappear in captive colonies if the animals are given the options they need. Unfortunately that will not happen any time soon. Aldabras have a shot, and I believe colonies that have been put together within the past 10 years or so will be problem free. Galops are another issue altogether, and one that will never be solved until some of these institutions pull their heads out of their rear, or farm some of the younger animals out to the private sector.

The comparison between fast growth and poor diet would be something akin to a body builder putting on muscle mass versus someone overweight getting bigger....

 

[Yvonne G]

The problem in my case was not enough calcium for the quick growth. In the first place, my soil/pasture was calcium poor and I didn't supplement. By the time things were bad enough for me to notice that there was a problem, it was already, not really too late, but quite a bad problem.

Just be sure to feed a proper diet and give them enough calcium for strong growth.

 

[marty4dive]

The problem in my case was not enough calcium for the quick growth. In the first place, my soil/pasture was calcium poor and I didn't supplement. By the time things were bad enough for me to notice that there was a problem, it was already, not really too late, but quite a bad problem.

Just be sure to feed a proper diet and give them enough calcium for strong growth.

Thanks Yvonne; unfortunately you found yourself on the wrong end of husbandry science as evidenced by the problems your animals had; fortunately for the rest of us a very valuable lesson was learned and does not have to be repeated if we're all paying attention. Very glad to read that Bo and So are doing better and thank you for your learned response. I am supplementing with Ca++ 2-3 days/week. Also feeding with Mazuri which seems to be a complete food, at least the new formulation is-more natural fiber as touted by the company's website. I'm curious though; during the time it took for Bo and So's metabolic problems to develop were they getting Mazuri or any other commercially prepared foods? From your post it sounds as if grazing was their entire food source. Thanks and since we're both in CA perhaps we'll meet each other's animals some day. I also have a pair of adult sulcatas,Fred&Wilma, and a juvenile sulcata named Petunia.

---

Someone on this forum must have an opinion or is in possession of some facts that can speak to rapid growth rates in Aldabras as it relates to any health implications.

* That is such a complex question for me because i have no foundation in biology, etc. I will simply say that the closer we can duplicate growth levels to that of the ones growing in the native islands the better they would be. My thoughts are it is similar to a very heavy human that over eats, therefor the more medical issues and complications they are likely to have. I have seen so many grown so fast and kept in the wrong environment that they have obvious complications, mainly because they are restricted without ample room for proper exercise abilities. The results have been lazy and poor muscle development because they never use them. Literally i have seen many larger captive raised aldabras that could not walk more than ten foot without having to plop down because they had no muscle tone or strength to go any further (Alfa had this problem). As far as bone development based on rapid or induced growth, I do not know if anyone on this forum is capable of answer that with any certainty. I speak with many that are involved in the Aldabra community, one that i call a friend is Sam Pascuci of Florida Iguana & Tortoise Breeders, he may have a well informed opinion about this question. He is a member here and is one of, if not the most knowledgeable giant tortoise keepers i have ever met.

I truly understand your concern and respect your passion, hopefully we can get answers.

Thanks Greg for attempting to apply the scientific method to this issue; It's surprising though to learn that Alfa suffered from poor muscle tone and strength given the roaming space he has access to. What caused it if you don't mind sharing those details? Marty

---

These animals are designed for fast growth. They are island dwellers that have evolved ( This goes for any Reptile really, but is accelerated in Island dwellers ) to grow fast in the good times and slow with the bad times. The growth itself is not the issue. The issue lies in both exercise, and captive stimulation, along with proper husbandry.

The goiter, foot, joint, and other issues will disappear in captive colonies if the animals are given the options they need. Unfortunately that will not happen any time soon. Aldabras have a shot, and I believe colonies that have been put together within the past 10 years or so will be problem free. Galops are another issue altogether, and one that will never be solved until some of these institutions pull their heads out of their rear, or farm some of the younger animals out to the private sector.

The comparison between fast growth and poor diet would be something akin to a body builder putting on muscle mass versus someone overweight getting bigger....

Thanks for your reply Eric; yes that would be my intuition; hard-wired for rapid growth with huge appetites to capitalize on times of plenty; the inverse though is what concerns me; we as keepers don't usually try to create the times of deprivation which would be the naturally occurring cycle on the islands. Saw a video recently that seemed to suggest that food could be extremely scarce in their natural habitat. That is what really concerns me when we consider the implications of rapid growth. Marty

 

[ben awes]

I have nothing to add to this conversation, but am reading with great anticipation. I have a 15 month old Aldabra and am very interested in learning from you all. Of course we love our Aldabras to grow big, but I certainly want him/her to be healthy above all else!

thanks everyone!

 

[Yellow Turtle]

Saw a video recently that seemed to suggest that food could be extremely scarce in their natural habitat. That is what really concerns me when we consider the implications of rapid growth. Marty

Can you put a link on that video? Would love to see more thing about their natural habitat.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Saw a video recently that seemed to suggest that food could be extremely scarce in their natural habitat. That is what really concerns me when we consider the implications of rapid growth.

* They do grow much slower in the wild. That video would be great to post!

 

[marty4dive]

Saw a video recently that seemed to suggest that food could be extremely scarce in their natural habitat. That is what really concerns me when we consider the implications of rapid growth.

* They do grow much slower in the wild. That video would be great to post!

I'll look for it but I know it's on You Tube and is really about Aldabra Island in general, with an aside on tortoises.