Health of my T.M.M

[Kukosk]

Hi all. I'm a beginner and bought three Testudo Marginatas. The man who sold me them said they're 2 years old, and have been hibernated 2 times. The thing I'm a bit worried of now is, their carapace has 5.2cm and their weight is only 24,26,30grams which should be from what I read a lot more. The man told me it's caused by growing them outside (in Slovakia - in his garden) and by feeding them only by weeds. He said if I put them into water (30-35 degrees celsius) and feed them by blah blah... They would grow up very fast and will be like 400grams in 6 months, but that's bad for them (he said). The thing that disappoints me the most is their carapace. It's a bit 'bouncy' on the bottom. I just wanted to know if it's okay, or if I should be worried, do something etc...

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kukosk:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

May we know your name and where you are?

If the tortoises are 2 years old, then their shell should be nice and firm with no give. If you want to keep them, it would be good to feed them calcium rich foods and a calcium supplement, but they will need to get some real sunshine to make the calcium work.

 

[Kukosk]

Hi, Thank you for the response. My name's Jakub Klen, and I'm from Slovakia. Yes I started to give them some egg-shells and put them out to have some sunshine, but it's a bit rainy in there now. I'm planning to grow them outside, and doing the best to get it done in there, so they can be outside... Is it okay that the bottom of their shell is like .... dunno how to say ... its not firm as a rock, but I can push it a bit...

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Welcome to our little Slice of Heaven!

Going to 2nd what Yvonne (Emysemys) said about calcium and sunshine...chopped opuntia cactus (2-3X a week) has a lot of calcium in it, and at least an hour a day of sunlight will do them tons of good. Their shells WILL get firmer w/ sunshine.

Weeds are pretty much their natural food, but you can offer them some dark green leafy vegetables, as well, and if you can get pelleted tortoise chow (Mazuri or Marion...my torts are nuts about the Marion ), that's good, too.

Give them a good soaking, in about an inch of water, daily...keep 'em hydrated and it'll clean out their systems!

 

[Kukosk]

And you think it's okay they are 2 years old and have 30grams ?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

And you think it's okay they are 2 years old and have 30grams ?

Seems pretty tiny to me...my smallest female, Apollonia, is probably about 3 and currently weighs 386 g. Being as she's an Eastern Hermann's, a Marginated of her age should weigh around that or just a bit more...so, a 2 yo. should weigh at least 1/3 to 1/2 of that, I'm guessing.

OTOH, mine do not hibernate, and I've no idea if Apollonia ever has, prior to my getting her...so, if they've been hibernated 2X, that would slow down their growth to some extent, but, still, it seems to me that 30grams is tiny.

Are they eating much when food is offered?

And, about how long are they, in a straight line, from front of shell to rear of shell?

Also, ask here, as these folks are more knowledgeable about Marginateds: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Forum-Marginated-tortoises#axzz1TFnAyVn6

 

[Kukosk]

They are 5.2cm from front of their shell to the rear. They eat a lot when offered and seem to be healthy. They are really active and bath couple of times every day.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

They are 5.2cm from front of their shell to the rear. They eat a lot when offered and seem to be healthy. They are really active and bath couple of times every day.

Sounds good...I'm guessing that hibernation there must last 6 months or so?

Most folks don't hibernate babies the 1st year and a lot of us never hibernate our torts, period, so they have more time to grow.

So, under the circumstances, maybe that's the normal growth rate for Slovenkian Marginateds that are kept outside...let's see what other folks say about their average weight, as I'm not an expert on raising babies outside, and don't want to give you the wrong notions.

Definitely make sure they have access to calcium, either in the form of cuttlebone, chopped opuntia pads, limestone flour or some mixture of these...as long as they're hydrated, it's hard to give them too much calcium, as any excess they'll just urinate away.

 

[Kukosk]

I have read somewhere that the carapace takes 2-3 years to be firm. Hope the info. is true

 

[GBtortoises]

The information that it takes 2-3 years for the carapace to become firm is not true. A healthy hatchlings shell should be "firm" within a couple of months after hatching. It will be somewhat slightly pliable around the edges for up to two years when the most rapid growth takes place. But it should by no means be flexible or soft.

 

[freefood]

I think it might be a bit cold in your area for their shells to harden properly, but as long as they seem healthy, that's not really a problem at this stage.

Don't worry about them being small, I've had my baby marginated for about 8 months, and she hasn't grown much in size (a bit in weight however, I don't have a scale that can measure that low right now).

Weeds aren't enough for their diet, I recommend supplementing with Mazuri tortoise diet, and a variety of veggies and fruits. There's a pretty good article on this site that shows what's good and what's not for tortoises:
ttp://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-...ed-Greeks-Russians-Sulcatas-etc#axzz1UOBft1Qj

Good luck with your tortoises.

 

[GBtortoises]

I have to disagree with some points made in the above post.
Your climate has nothing to do with with whether or not your tortoise's shell will harden. In fact, the climate that I live in is cooler overall, with less days of sunshine than most areas of Slovakia based on global climate sites that I just looked at. I have raised generations of Marginateds and other Testudo species here with very good sucess. Seasonal changes and climate in general can play a role in the rate of growth for tortoises that are being kept outdoors year round. But so do food abundance and content. Tortoises kept exclusively indoors are not subject to seasonal changes either and usually grow more rapidly.
Weeds are a very huge part of a Marginated's diet. While Mazuri can be used as a supplement, it is primarily those same high fiber weeds compacted into a pellet. Vegetables provide a good source of additional vitamins and some minerals but even so should only be about 15-20% of a Marginated's diet. And never more than 25%. Fruit should absolutey not be part of their regular diet. An occasional piece of fruit is fine. Marginateds are also one of the few species of Testudo that will sometimes graze on grass. Essentially their diet should be very high in fiber, vitamin A & D and low in protein with a good source of calcium.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I have to disagree with some points made in the above post.
Your climate has nothing to do with with whether or not your tortoise's shell will harden. In fact, the climate that I live in is cooler overall, with less days of sunshine than most areas of Slovakia based on global climate sites that I just looked at. I have raised generations of Marginateds and other Testudo species here with very good sucess. Seasonal changes and climate in general can play a role in the rate of growth for tortoises that are being kept outdoors year round. But so do food abundance and content. Tortoises kept exclusively indoors are not subject to seasonal changes either and usually grow more rapidly.
Weeds are a very huge part of a Marginated's diet. While Mazuri can be used as a supplement, it is primarily those same high fiber weeds compacted into a pellet. Vegetables provide a good source of additional vitamins and some minerals but even so should only be about 15-20% of a Marginated's diet. And never more than 25%. Fruit should absolutey not be part of their regular diet. An occasional piece of fruit is fine. Marginateds are also one of the few species of Testudo that will sometimes graze on grass. Essentially their diet should be very high in fiber, vitamin A & D and low in protein with a good source of calcium.

GB hits all the pertainant points!