Hello from Florida—Introducing Bob, our adopted red foot

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jeff kushner

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I'm pretty sure after reading this mess of a thread, that folks are getting a bit too twisted....relax guys, you're acting like the MSM!

A lot of us here Tay, are old like you. We're grouchy, know it all bast...ds too. Most of us have had turtles for decades, again like you my friend....why any of us have any expectations at all on the "internet" is beyond me. None of us grew up with this level of communication and available data. Thing is, most of us set aside the "azzhatry" when we log on...we don't need it here my friend.

Let me put it this way.....I'm an extremely defensive person and as I get older, it seems to be getting worse,
I'm a chief estimator for a large construction firm near DC.....I get paid to guess. Can't be wrong if you get paid to guess, right? Wrong....they actually expect me to know the right number, not just close. SOB! Who would have thunk? So yes you are keeping your guy alive, they are just trying to help you do it safely for Bob, nothing else matters......

You came here to tell us about Bob...a cool story too, to me. Clemson (Sulc)used to live indoors with me for years and I thought it was pretty cool too.. You were probably expecting a response like that from most people. What you didn't know was that this isn't a "normal forum". This is one of those VERY rare forums where there is some serious talent. The guys may lack good communication skill with the niceties of language but do not doubt their talent or their dedication.

Don't get defensive, even though it's human nature to do so when we feel attacked....but try to realize that for a lot of these guys here, they have seen your situation a 1000 times and many with undesired results so try to see they are really only trying to help your turtle.

BTW- I was an azzhat long before I joined this forum. I knew everything when I left home at 15 and only got smarter since...... but spend a few hours browsing the care sheets(done by the pros), endangered species-breeding programs members are involved with and pretty soon, you'll look at this forum a little different. You WILL learn things....promise brother!

& post up a pic of Bob.....we love pics!!


jeff
 

Tay100

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Thanks for the new monicker, “Seasoned Scientist”. I think I will change my screen name using two upper case “S” letters.
 

Tay100

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Hey there,

You're an anonymous entity here, so nobody knows if you're telling the truth or not. The original request for pics was not antagonistic, it's in the interest of tortoises.

We love pictures of torts. I associate most of the people here with the tortoises that they own. But also you're talking about behavior that a lot of us are interested in seeing.

These type of online forums automatically scrub the personal data from pictures (if that's what you're worried about). If you want to take your own steps to remove the data (called exif) from your pictures, I can PM you on how to do that.
Thanks for the first descent post. I have many pictures as illustrations for our program showing this tortoise’s peculiar behavior. I can handle scrubbing the information though it’s not necessary. Prior to the first response by the forum elites I would have been glad to share however I no longer have the desire. This tortoise and aged dogs do exist quite peacefully. I have no fears that the dogs will harm the tort being beyond the ages of having innate needs for chewing. Anyway, I laughingly have tell others about the responses I have received. I‘m something like a heretic against the holy Forum church of tortoises—like the guy who proclaimed the Earth is round finding himself crosswise with the Holy Roman Church. Without questions the knowledge keepers and their faithful followers have posted insults because I have introduced a topic that threatens their high seated positions in this forum. So, if being new is akin to being a liar I’m sorry but for now I will keep the pics. But thanks for the explanation. Seems I didn’t pass the initiation trials.
 

Toddrickfl1

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"Prior to the first response by the forum elites I would have been glad to share however I no longer have the desire"

So your just looking for someone to validate what your doing and stroke your ego? Once again if your going to disregard any advice given, and your not going to share any pictures of your tortoise or tortoise enclosure, then what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this post?
 

Tay100

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I'm pretty sure after reading this mess of a thread, that folks are getting a bit too twisted....relax guys, you're acting like the MSM!

A lot of us here Tay, are old like you. We're grouchy, know it all bast...ds too. Most of us have had turtles for decades, again like you my friend....why any of us have any expectations at all on the "internet" is beyond me. None of us grew up with this level of communication and available data. Thing is, most of us set aside the "azzhatry" when we log on...we don't need it here my friend.

Let me put it this way.....I'm an extremely defensive person and as I get older, it seems to be getting worse,
I'm a chief estimator for a large construction firm near DC.....I get paid to guess. Can't be wrong if you get paid to guess, right? Wrong....they actually expect me to know the right number, not just close. SOB! Who would have thunk? So yes you are keeping your guy alive, they are just trying to help you do it safely for Bob, nothing else matters......

You came here to tell us about Bob...a cool story too, to me. Clemson (Sulc)used to live indoors with me for years and I thought it was pretty cool too.. You were probably expecting a response like that from most people. What you didn't know was that this isn't a "normal forum". This is one of those VERY rare forums where there is some serious talent. The guys may lack good communication skill with the niceties of language but do not doubt their talent or their dedication.

Don't get defensive, even though it's human nature to do so when we feel attacked....but try to realize that for a lot of these guys here, they have seen your situation a 1000 times and many with undesired results so try to see they are really only trying to help your turtle.

BTW- I was an azzhat long before I joined this forum. I knew everything when I left home at 15 and only got smarter since...... but spend a few hours browsing the care sheets(done by the pros), endangered species-breeding programs members are involved with and pretty soon, you'll look at this forum a little different. You WILL learn things....promise brother!

& post up a pic of Bob.....we love pics!!


jeff
Hi, yes I agree. I was with you until “azzhatry”, what is that? It seems nothing I have posted has been read and understood. I was disappointed by your telling me, ”...so yes you are keeping him alive they are trying to help you do it safely, nothing else matters.” I wasn’t surprised by the response in fact with all forums there are a few who are like the zeropilot and the other who claimed everything I am doing is completely wrong. I am not surprised there are people with serious talent. You will not find where I have denigrated anyone yet, after several attempts to explain that I am qualified to have chosen this method instead of questions the knowledge kings issue insults, accuse me of being a liar or revert to name calling. In my world I deal with professionals from around the world. Real experts who are not defensive as a knee-jerk reaction to differing ideas. These people do not need to protect their knowledge, would not send insults to colleagues with differing viewpoints. I believe someone referred to me using a smartassed comment as “seasoned scientist”. These are childish actions that I was not too surprised to see.

Jeff, you wrote that I shouldn’t doubt the talent and dedication of the guys. You ask me to not be defensive when being attacked. You explain they have seen my situation 1000 times before. But, really? I don’t see how they would have since I gave only a small amount of information surrounding the situation. Not one question was ask by the experts. As an expert, I at least expected a reasonable dialog. Please understand that I did not post asking for help. We are quite capable with this tortoise and the many other tortoises in habitats on this property. I imagine it would give at least you pause to consider when I tell you the “group” has 24-7 supervision. But, nobody asked any questions merely formed conclusions and posted insulting replies. Someone accused me of being closed-minded because I am not following his recommendations. Also accused me of arguing (not true), I was trying to get him to understand that while I agree with him about dogs in general this is not the case.

While I am an aged a**hole often I have had to learn by way of ”professional OJT” that it is quite detrimental to one’s reputation among peers in the scientific community. When a professional acts as I have seen by posts from some of these experts, eyes will tend to roll. It is indicative of “something‘s wrong here”. I’ve been through too many peer reviews to sweat this. So while you try to explain their attitudes toward me, perhaps a word or two about “listening” and open-mindedness would help. Not one question to date about the arrangement of this environment. Just defensive crowing in the name of “safe for the tortoise “.

Long before posting, I had already been through the many topics viewing hundreds of posts. I was logging in using another members computer and decided to create the account in order to post. I have learned much and much more in the past few days. I will give you an addition to you your comment that I will learn much from the expert members. While it may not have occurred to yo there could have been much I had to offer—providing knowledge is not held only by an elite few.

So, Jeff thank-you for the outreach. You would be correct to expect I am put-off by the attitudes I have encountered here. As for Bob, he is quite healthy and safe. In spite of my education and experience I was apparently thinking I too could be one of the guys. I don’t expect to be posting much more from here on out.
 

newCH

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Why would pictures please your curiosity more than the descriptive post?
Well usually tort owners want to show off their tort, like a proud parent. In this case yours has friends. Pictures add a view of enviorment, flooring, etc.
My tort has a dog bed he enjoys... maybe your does to ?
 

Tay100

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Well usually tort owners want to show off their tort, like a proud parent. In this case yours has friends. Pictures add a view of enviorment, flooring, etc.
My tort has a dog bed he enjoys... maybe your does to ?
In fact he does enjoy napping in a dog bed, with one of the dogs. I actually do not feel like sharing photos on this forum being told we in this facility do not know what we are doing. After being told by one member unless I post pictures my initial post is all lies. Well, I don’t need to play those childish games. No pics...
 

Yvonne G

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In fact he does enjoy napping in a dog bed, with one of the dogs. I actually do not feel like sharing photos on this forum being told we in this facility do not know what we are doing. After being told by one member unless I post pictures my initial post is all lies. Well, I don’t need to play those childish games. No pics...
Too bad you're painting the whole Forum with the same brush.
 

wellington

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You do realize that your initial post about Bob, he was found at your home. You had him outside initially and then thought he was unhappy so you let him in your home.
You mention your pack of dogs. You do not make one mention of owning tortoises before or that you have others on your property in habitats. Now you also talk facility instead of your home like when this all started.
We don't know people when they first join. We see or read things that are dangerous or wrong for the torts and some of us jump in to save the tort from bad care and some of us blow smoke and talk about how cute.
If a pole were taken, probably 99% of newbies not only are doing most things wrong from the old outdated info or from the outdated breeder, vet or pet store, but that same 99% are thankful to have found this forum and gotten the correct info. Many that thought they knew it all!
I imagine the other 1% probably still learn and make changes and are thankful for the forum, that just can't admit they were wrong!
The saying is, if there is no proof, it didn't happen or it isn't true.
This forum has plenty of proof.
 

maggie3fan

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As I said you and your forum expert know nothing about my education, professional experiences/knowledge or much else. Stick by your comments if you wish, that is choice. I likely have forgotten more than you know about animal husbandry. Yes, I really have fifty years experience in answer to your accusation that it is a lie, “of you have fifty years...”. I don‘t think you know what you are talking about saying that much more education and changes have been made. If you do not know, in the professional world there are requirements for ongoing training in addition to personally chosen degrees of higher learning. Also, to keeping abreast of current topics we read! Need to learn? I meet your type from time to time having appreciable knowledge but who believes he is all knowing. I bet I never occurred to you that I could teach you something. Yet you have the nerve to tell me that I do not sound like the type that wants to learn and to be open minded. Just so you know I did not join this forum to have you teach me what I already know, I have resources for what I don’t. My education was not learned from forum posts or care sheets. Though they are useful. Thanks for your arrogant reply. I joined and posted against my better judgement. I have experienced your type before, the keeper of knowledge.
But we don't need to know you to know your tortoise is being kept poorly. Wellington's reply to you was not arrogant, it was correct. You may know about tort keeping, but you are not keeping that tortoise in any acceptable manner. Don't come on here and brag about how you are keeping your tortoise badly and expect that we are not going to say anything, then you have the balls to insult us. Lump all Forum members the same. But you are defensive and every time you post something else it proves over and over that you do not in any manner supply that tortoise with a minimum of acceptable care. I am going to ignore you, cuz you are rude and disrespectful we don't need that adolescent drama...
 

Tay100

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Please ignore me, I have no interest in communicating with you. Seems you yourself have the patent on rudeness, defensiveness and adolescent childishness. You seem to exemplify exactly that which you suggest I am. You have no clue about how we care for this and the other tortoises in our care. You are merely running with the pack spouting rude comments about my balls...you speak like you have a tremendously big pair, lady.

Please ignore me.
 

Tay100

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You do realize that your initial post about Bob, he was found at your home. You had him outside initially and then thought he was unhappy so you let him in your home.
You mention your pack of dogs. You do not make one mention of owning tortoises before or that you have others on your property in habitats. Now you also talk facility instead of your home like when this all started.
We don't know people when they first join. We see or read things that are dangerous or wrong for the torts and some of us jump in to save the tort from bad care and some of us blow smoke and talk about how cute.
If a pole were taken, probably 99% of newbies not only are doing most things wrong from the old outdated info or from the outdated breeder, vet or pet store, but that same 99% are thankful to have found this forum and gotten the correct info. Many that thought they knew it all!
I imagine the other 1% probably still learn and make changes and are thankful for the forum, that just can't admit they were wrong!
The saying is, if there is no proof, it didn't happen or it isn't true.
This forum has plenty of proof.
I realize what I said. I did mention many years experience with tortoises of various types, rounded to fifty give or take a few. Yes, we placed him in an enclosure outside isolated and then in a population. Please if you are going to quote me do so correctly. After about two years he was not responding as he should after consideration he was allowed to run the facility and my home. He has greatly improved. You are wrong about not mentioning other tortoises and habitats, read my posts. Why would I mention others in my first post when it was about him? This large property encompasses a facility for special orphaned pets of which I am part owner and includes my home place. Why would I ever have spoken of such in my first post? Stop the parsing of words looking for inconsistencies. And by the way, I did not just think he was “unhappy”, nor did I say that. Please read again what I said. This decision was not made on a whim as your comment suggests. In fact I would bet good money that this tortoise has more constant, direct eyes on attention that most. Comparatively, he is now eating properly and growing. Far better than he was and we are satisfied. By the way you keep throwing out the danger word like it is an excuse for you and the other ”experts” to levy snide comments. Does it really bother you to know beyond this forum there are groups who are at least as qualified to care for an animal? I believe this barrage of insults veiled as caring only for the tortoise is a means of trying to run me away.

Regarding your newbie comment and thinking I know it all. I am neither so I would appreciate it if you would remember that. And I am not some small time pet shop, outdated breeder nor do we operate in a vacuum of current knowledge. The only closed mindedness I find with this forum has to do with the posts I have gotten.
 

wellington

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I realize what I said. I did mention many years experience with tortoises of various types, rounded to fifty give or take a few. Yes, we placed him in an enclosure outside isolated and then in a population. Please if you are going to quote me do so correctly. After about two years he was not responding as he should after consideration he was allowed to run the facility and my home. He has greatly improved. You are wrong about not mentioning other tortoises and habitats, read my posts. Why would I mention others in my first post when it was about him? This large property encompasses a facility for special orphaned pets of which I am part owner and includes my home place. Why would I ever have spoken of such in my first post? Stop the parsing of words looking for inconsistencies. And by the way, I did not just think he was “unhappy”, nor did I say that. Please read again what I said. This decision was not made on a whim as your comment suggests. In fact I would bet good money that this tortoise has more constant, direct eyes on attention that most. Comparatively, he is now eating properly and growing. Far better than he was and we are satisfied. By the way you keep throwing out the danger word like it is an excuse for you and the other ”experts” to levy snide comments. Does it really bother you to know beyond this forum there are groups who are at least as qualified to care for an animal? I believe this barrage of insults veiled as caring only for the tortoise is a means of trying to run me away.

Regarding your newbie comment and thinking I know it all. I am neither so I would appreciate it if you would remember that. And I am not some small time pet shop, outdated breeder nor do we operate in a vacuum of current knowledge. The only closed mindedness I find with this forum has to do with the posts I have gotten.
I didnt try to quote you so! I also did not try to write a book, so I shortened my observations!
I did in fact reread your first post and no mention of having any other tortoises or facility! Not until later when trying to convince everyone you were somebody educated on what tortoise care is, did you then use the term facility and other tortoises!
Get off your high horse that you accuse members of riding high on!
You are in your own very small world, where you think you are all might! A world most would never want to be in.
Hope you aren't so closed minded with all the other rescues!
Sad!
I'm out, waste of my time. I'd rather help those that are willing to learn and do right by their pet!
 

Tay100

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Again with the word parsing. I never said I mentioned other tortoises or the rescue in my introduction. I ask you why would I? It was an intro to a specific tortoise. I also didn’t mention the make/model of my car—not important. I never attempted to sit atop a high horse rather I have been fielding insults.

Since you know so much about this tortoise and what we are doing insisting we are all wrong, I invite you to do as you really should have done already. Now, take your time because I need specifics. Not just “he isn’t safe with dogs” or “he should not roam freely“. You sit high in judgement and profess to know enough about or care of this tortoise to pass that judgement so, it should be easy to list in detail each and everything we are doing wrong. Everything.

I invite anyone else who is so inclined. Stop the insults and reply in an adult manner, please.
 

wellington

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This will be my last post on here.
I would list the details. Yes, I do know them!
However, I have wasted too much of my time already. Why would I waste more to someone that isn't willing to change!
Good luck to all the animals you touch.
 

jeff kushner

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I can generally see things from a "give 'em a chance" attitude but when the very people responsible for helping me save little Matilda's life are seemingly attacked in nothing more then a dic-measuring contest, I'm out. GTFU --grow the.....yeah......that's right.

Life is too short to fix years of someone else's "window filth", you know, that stuff on the outside trying to cover the "dragons" on the inside"

I don't beat around the bush or sugarcoat things....so here's bow on it;

Clinically speaking, this just sounds like a Dem (sry guys) pontificating now......they comment, just to scream at the sky.....good luck brother, I hope that excuse you seem to observe as "happiness" works well for you in the future. The end-game of that attitude is depression and self-loathing, when all the bluster fades in a few years and one is surrounded by loneliness built by years of knowing that you are the smartest person in the room.

The "forum elites" is an indicator of how one views their world......that person is constantly looking up while pretending to look down on others.

While to most of us, these are our Forum-friends that have selflessly helped us and our little friends. They are not better or worse as human beings....they are by nature, compassionate!



Happiness, the only thing in life you have to earn- all by yourself. No one can "make you happy"...

....it cannot be bought, it cannot be demanded, it won't come with a stimulus check either.....it puts us all on very equal footing.

Enjoy the day my friend!


jeff
 
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