Hello from Upper Michigan Leopard Pardalis Pardalis

[Peabody123]

LOVE this forum - Took over care of four Leopard Pardalis Pardalis Tortoises recently. Poor things were kept in an aquarium with chicken feed for substrate and pet store water dish, fed solely romaine lettuce.
New enclosure planned -Hubby working on large covered enclosure. I have cypress mulch/coconut coir as new substrate, terra cotta bases for water and food. Reptile thermometer to monitor temps. Recently received (Tortoise Supply) Herbal tortoise hay, cactus pads, cuttlebone, calcium carbonate, Broadleaf Testudo Mix - I LOVE reading Tom's posts and try to follow all recommendations!
I know I should probably have multiple enclosures - I was told one tortoise is 6 months old, two are 1 year and one is 4 years old.
My guys get a warm soak daily or every other day right now - they seem to really love it! I have wheat grass growing in a pot, should be ready in few days.....so my questions are these.........
1. How do I know how much to feed because they are varied size/ages?
2. Do I need to cut up the cactus pad or just put a piece in and have them bite off pieces (I worry about the little tortoise)
3 Pad came frozen via UPS so likely will have to freeze to ensure doesn't spoil - suggestions?
I know BEST place is outdoors, living in Western Upper Peninsula - Michigan really makes this impossible - trying to give these the best possible life. All comments and suggestions welcome!
Karen

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Karen, and welcome to the Forum!

Are you sure these are pardalis pardalis? That tortoise comes from the more expensive end of the leopard tortoise spectrum and is not common in the pet trade. May we see pictures please?

I would have them in a very large enclosure where I can block off an area visually to feed the smaller tortoises behind the visual barrier
Cut up the cactus for the smaller ones
I'm not familiar with frozen cactus pads

Living indoors is workable, but you really need to have them in a very large enclosure.

 

[Peabody123]

So excited to receive such a quick response - thank you! I just took a photo of all four....I purchased this large cement mixing container from Menards (Recommended on this forum ) I read the cactus pads are good for the tortoises so ordered from Tortoise supply - being winter here - they arrived frozen......oh well. I will plan as you suggested to separate smaller ones. I also purchased the Mazuri tortoisse food and soak it - they aren't very interested though....hoping the wheat grass is a hit!
Karen

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Karen:

Very pretty leopard tortoises, however, they are not what we used to call pardalis pardalis, but rather pardalis babcocki. There has recently been a change and those two names are no longer official. Now we have "leopard tortoises" and "South African leopard tortoises." Yours are just leopard tortoises.

And I"m sorry to say, that tub would be ok for one of the smaller babies, but not nearly big enough for all of them. See if you can find anyone who still has the Christmas Tree Storage Bin (by Iris) for sale. If not walmart, maybe you can still buy it online:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

It's about 4' long and would be plenty big enough for all your new babies.

If you're able to find a large enough plastic bin, like the one shown in the link, then save the lid because your babies need to be in a covered container to hold in the warm moist air. They are starting to pyramid and keeping them in a closed container will stop that. There are threads on here showing how to cut holes for the lights, etc.

 

[Peabody123]

Thank you for the information! When given to me I was told they were Pardalis Pardalis, specifically not Pardalis Babcocki - this person also thought it was fine to use the chicken feed for substrate (Said it added calcium as the dust would be absorbed).....seemed very knowledgeable as he also had some HUGE tortoises that he recently purchased and have already layed eggs- stating these were also Pardalis Pardalis...Oh well - at least the Leopard part is correct! I have been sticking to the forum for information specific to the Leopard Tortoise - never realized so many differences between the species (shy, agressive, etc..) So fun to learn and read about them. My husband teases me now about the interest I've taken and all the changes I've made. "Tom" has become a huge part of our conversations - "Tom says to do this", etc.... Now I can add "Yvonne" says.................. LOL
I certainly don't have space for more than one Tortoise enclosure and I want them well taken care of so I will have to figure something out. Forum has great info on building enclosures - and everything I've read here states they need the humidity and must be enclosed to accomplish this. I will look into the bins you suggested - thank you! I've accomplished so much in the time I've had them by changing the substrate, better feeding, I have CHE fixture so they are in the dark 12 hours now where it used to be always heat lamps. I provide the UVB bulb....I just need to move quicker on getting them separated out.....I love viewing all the enclosure ideas - the bin may be my best option to get it done quicker - my husband promising to "get to it" .....the bin idea I can mostly do myself and only rely on his assistance for the heat/lighting.

Thanks again - I do love this forum.
Karen

 

[wellington]

Hi Karen:

Very pretty leopard tortoises, however, they are not what we used to call pardalis pardalis, but rather pardalis babcocki. There has recently been a change and those two names are no longer official. Now we have "leopard tortoises" and "South African leopard tortoises." Yours are just leopard tortoises.

And I"m sorry to say, that tub would be ok for one of the smaller babies, but not nearly big enough for all of them. See if you can find anyone who still has the Christmas Tree Storage Bin (by Iris) for sale. If not walmart, maybe you can still buy it online:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

It's about 4' long and would be plenty big enough for all your new babies.

If you're able to find a large enough plastic bin, like the one shown in the link, then save the lid because your babies need to be in a covered container to hold in the warm moist air. They are starting to pyramid and keeping them in a closed container will stop that. There are threads on here showing how to cut holes for the lights, etc.

The 3 smaller ones have double spots. They are no longer considered PP?
If not then what is the tell tale sign now?
The larger one doesnt have double spots so is a Babcocki.
I know most are pretty much considered miss but when did the double spots stop being PP?

 

[wellington]

Welcome. Glad your trying to give these guys a better home. Will be quit the challenge when they are larger for the UP with your shorter summers and colder winters. A large room or a heated shed will be needed in a couple years for adulthood.
I'm originally a Troll lol but moved. Actually will be visiting the UP in April on a bus trip.
Glad you found the forum and Tom's threads. I relied on him a lot when I first joined too.

 

[Peabody123]

Thanks for the response - Trolls, Yoopers.....Michigan great place to live! (Maybe not so great if your a tortoise) Finally located the BIN that Yvonne mentioned. No delivery available and I'll have to make a trip to Wauwatosa-The Container Store. Might be easier to sweet talk hubby to get moving on building me one. Bookcase idea on this site looked promising. I learned about pyramiding right away so have been doing my best keeping humidity high - my enclosure is too small and not totally sealed so very difficult. My priority has to be space - I've learned they need lots of it to roam. I'm starting to think a different species of tortoise would be way easier for me to manage....I honestly never thought I would enjoy taking care of them this much. They are so fun to watch when they are active which is usually when they are eating. They seem to get along well - eat side by side, etc... but like "Tom" mentioned in a thread - they won't get lonely like a human and would likely be better to separate so they have more space, etc...
Thanks again!
Karen

 

[wellington]

Dont forget you can build up too if needed. You likely can keep all of them together if you can build a big enough enclosure at least for now. Or do two enclosures and place the 3 smaller ones together and the bigger one alone. I have leopards here in Chicago. They do fairly well in winter as they seem so slow down some and not want to eat as much. Well I have one that slow his eating the other not so much and a baby that eats like a pig but she's still housed in the house. A big 10x12 or larger pop up greenhouse placed in the basement works too. I used a oil filled space heater and had uvb bulbs during the day also. It's all doable just more expensive and work then the southern states.

 

[Yvonne G]

The 3 smaller ones have double spots. They are no longer considered PP?
If not then what is the tell tale sign now?
The larger one doesnt have double spots so is a Babcocki.
I know most are pretty much considered miss but when did the double spots stop being PP?

They're all leopard and only separated geographically, eg. Sudan leopards, SA leopards, etc. No more nomenclature like 'babcock.'

I didn't see the picture big enough to i.d.

 

[Peabody123]

Pop up greenhouse - great idea - we have room in basement too. Thanks for the idea! Just gave them all a good soak again and sprinkled the Herbal Tortoise Hay recommended by Tom on their greens - love watching them eat! LOL sounds dumb but they are pretty neat creatures! My day off so I've been spending too much time on computer - mainly this site!!! Sure appreciate this forum and all the ideas provided. Sharing with others that have the same interests is rewarding (You probably understand and enjoy watching your tortoises as well).

 

[Peabody123]

Three Leopard Tortoises one is approx 8 inches, one is approx 4.5 inches and one is approx 4 inches. How do I contact administrators of this site to ask question?

 

[OkAdiza]

Three Leopard Tortoises one is approx 8 inches, one is approx 4.5 inches and one is approx 4 inches. How do I contact administrators of this site to ask question?

Maybe @Yvonne G ?