Hello from Valentine and Family!

[Casjoyce5]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this site and after reading some helpful posts and informative posts, I’d like to post a couple of pictures of my girl, Valentine! I’m hoping you tortoise experts out there can help us finally learn what type of tortoise Valentine is!

So a little bit of a back-story: Valentine and I have been best friends for 22 years! I got her as my birthday gift from my mom when I was just 10 years old! She has seen a vet just once in her life as I thought her breathing was off one time... the vet could not tell me what kind of tortoise she is and books have failed to show me an exact picture of my girl!

So she was purchased from a pet-store that’s not even around anymore and she’s been with me in New Mexico (NOT Mexico) practically her whole life... until March 2017, when we moved to Bozeman, Montana! So I’m writing here because I’m a bit worried about her... she hibernated the longest and best she ever has been given the chance to this past winter. She woke up here and there throughout it so I’m not even certain I can call it a true hibernation...? But she finally started waking up a bit more and crawling out from under her little house and peeking out about 2 weeks ago. But I’m worried because she will not eat! She hasn’t pooped or went pee since she’s woken up either. Today, she took 2 little nibbles of banana and has been drinking water, both out of her water-dish in her terrarium and from her soaking dish (a clay plant saucer). Is this normal for my area (Southwest Montana) and I just need to calm down and give her time? Perhaps I’m so use to her behavior in New Mexico (a far more hot and dry environment). The hottest it’s gotten here in Bozeman, Montana, is high seventies and nights here can still be a bit chilly (normals have been in the fourties). I try to keep her heater in her room at 70 Fahrenheit. I don’t have a lamp for her because I’ve tried a couple and it makes her terrarium way too hot and dry and she doesn’t seem to like them. She runs around a lot with us, in our home, when she is awake anyway.

Since I do not know exactly what type of tortoise she is, I give her an array of organic vegetables and fruits. Some of her favorites as of lately are: bananas, tomatoes, romaine, yellow squash and zucchini. She also likes cauliflower. But I don’t know what to do in the area of protein? I don’t know if she is a vegetarian tortoise and won’t like protein or how that works.

Your guys’ help and wisdom is greatly appreciated! And thanks for having us!

 

[Casjoyce5]

Oh! Also, it might be necessary to tell you that the last snow we had was just about a month ago (May sometime). She is only an indoor tortoise and we take her outside when she’s awake (apartment living). Also, she gets this cut by the side of her mouth that I CANNOT heal... perhaps that is preventing her from wanting to eat as well... as it bleeds sometimes when she opens her mouth wide enough.

Thank you again , guys!

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Looks like a hingeback tortoise

@2turtletom another hingeback?

 

[daniellenc]

It also appears your tortoise has MBD which is from poor diet and lack of calcium. Anyone else seeing this?

 

[MrMarg&me]

Yes she appears to be a hingeback. Her carapace slopes toward her tail in a way that would indicate mbd. Her beak looks to need a trim. Welcome to this forum. I understand it is difficult to find accurate information as a lay person on proper husbandry of chelonians. You will find a wealth of very helpful info here. I think it is awesome you have shared life with this tortoise for 22 years. You care deeply for her well being so you will be able to do what is necessary for her to thrive.

 

[daniellenc]

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/kinixys-belliana-nogueyi-care-sheet.75129/
This is a good place to start!

 

[TriciaStringer]

Welcome! Hello Valentine! You have come to the right place. I know nothing about hingebacks but others know lots. I just wanted to say hello! You are going to get a ton of helpful info. Work on correcting anything not ideal for Valentine and she will thrive. I bet she’d love being outside in a secure area walking on some untreated grass.

 

[Casjoyce5]

Thank you all so so very much! We are going to go to the store today to get her a source of calcium and protein. Do you think just purchasing a calcium stick (like the birds use) and just scraping some on top of her food will be sufficient, or is there something else I should get? With the protein, I’ve tried crickets before and I’m not sure she will eat a moving bug...? Do you guys think I can feed her dead worms or a pellet of some sort?

In all of our 22 years, no one has been so spot with the kind of tortoise she is. The pictures look just like her ☺️! I feel a lot better about that line going down the side of her shell (near the back) after seeing a tortoise in the pictures with it. I’ve never felt completely comfortable with that line. Is this a normal thing for a hingeback?

So concerning the not eating part and the not using the restroom yet part, any advice concerning these things will be so helpful as well!

I cannot thank you guys enough as your knowledge regarding tortoises is amazing! Thank you thank you!

 

[Casjoyce5]

Hi all! We need help I know Valentine isn’t an aquatic turtle, but the protein in the aquatic turtle food is so much higher (35% compared to 12%). And for the calcium part, should we just get a calcium (cuttlebone) stick or the little block that has both calcium and protein (2.5% protein and 29% calcium)? Any help is appreciated! Thank you!

 

[daniellenc]

Don’t know about the food but reptical makes a good calcium dust for food.....just a pinch though. For protein maybe once or twice a month try plain shrimp boiled and cooled, worms, roaches, pinky mice frozen and thawed, grain free cat food soaked in water until soft and even mushrooms.

For good greens search on here for ideas but know she’s going to be resistant to this food change. MBD is deadly though and after 22 years lots of damage exists so start the change slow and increase as time goes.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome!

There is more than one way to care for the different species of hingeback tortoise (Kinixys). I'll tag a couple of our hingback keepers so you can get the correct care info:

@Will @Jacqui @tortadise @Anyfoot And any others that I have left out.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Hi @Casjoyce5 . I have not kept up with some of the specific of the scientific names for the Savannah/drier forest types of hinge-backs.

I am struggling to understand something. Your tortoise hibernated in an area in Montana with snow on the ground. I re-read your post and can't quite sort out the scenario of the hibernation (inactive period). Many people that have hinge-backs do not 'hibernate' them. They are native to Africa, and there are 7/-8 species, non are known to fully hibernate.

The 'mbd' that has been mentioned in other posts look not so bad. Improving the diet some will not change what has happened, but it will certainly be a good idea. I know you've had Valentine for a long time and so, "really it can't be all that bad" and I would say it is not. But I also imagine your here to learn to do better, good job on that already.

Hard boiled eggs crushed shell and all is a good protein source. Snails are also good, both eggs and snail provide protein and calcium. Of the diets you showed the forest is better suited to a hinge-back, That one is a good packaged diet.

Many things to suggest or try.

A larger enclosure with a forest floor substrate would be a thing of many to try. I use many things for enclosures, all are water proof in one way or another, have a bottom drain and access through the front. Converted snake cages from "vision" or as sold from Animal Plastics are good. Brand new they are expensive, but even in a low population place like Montana there might be some on a Craig's list within a reasonable drive.

Substrate can be bought or harvested from a forest floor. All that semi decomposed wood duff is good with a layer of leaves on top.

All this may be 'scary' for your tortoise, but I have done the same things with long term animals that had one care scenario, and then another, as long as food, water and shelter are all close at hand (tortoise line of sight) it works.

Free roaming is risky, but again 22 years of it, I would guess you may have had close calls??

Talk more later.

 

[Casjoyce5]

@Will I will definitely try the hard-boiled eggs and forest floor substrate. Also, I’ll go grab that forest food diet. So every year, during the winter, in New Mexico, she would sleep a lot more and I figured she was trying to hibernate and just couldn’t fully hibernate because too much activity was going on in the room (her terrarium is in our bedroom)... I didn’t know hingebacks don’t fully hibernate! And she always does this period of more sleep in her terrarium, under her little wooden house... she has never stayed outside, even overnight. She just seems to want to sleep more during the winter. I’m glad I haven’t hurt her too bad with the MBD . At this point, I am just waiting for her to fully wake up and move around more, after Bozeman’s long winter! I’ve been bringing her out to walk around the house and get exercise for about two weeks now, but she’s barely started to come out from under her little wooden house by herself for three days now. She hasn’t pooped or peed and won’t eat (which is what was worrying me). My friend has a friend that is a vet (and who specializes in tortoises) and she said not to worry too much because tortoises can go a while without pooping or peeing, and to stop soaking her because there is such a thing as over-soaking, and to just give her 2 hours of sun every day! I think I just need to let her do her own thing and she’ll use the restroom and eat when she wants to. Also, yes concerning the close calls! I’ve had her since I was ten years old and forgot her outside a few times and we’d have to go out at night with flashlights to find her so she wouldn’t stay out there all night. I’m pretty on my toes with my animals so I try really hard to keep her safe Thank you all so much for your kind help and tortoise-wisdom!

 

[MrMarg&me]

It is very apparent you take the responsibility of Valentine’s care seriously. You have a very long history with this animal. It is just unfortunate that you were not aware that some tortoises do not have the capability to hibernate. The accurate term with tortoises is brumate which is actually slightly different than hibernation. So what was happening with Valentine is she was not warm enough for her body to properly function and she was using valuable calories to keep her self alive every winter. Over time this takes a toll on the animal and weakens it. But now that you know her conditions have not been ideal you can start to correct where you have errored. Everyone without exception makes mistakes. I have never heard about soaking a tortoise too much. But obviously that is not an impossibility. Thank you for sharing your story here. I look forward to more about your Valentine.

 

[2turtletom]

Looks like a hingeback tortoise

@2turtletom another hingeback?

Yes!

 

[2turtletom]

Wow. This is very cool. Your hingeback is a Western hingeback, Kinixys nogueyi, likely a female.

I have kept two females for 20 and 18 years respectively.

First of all, western hingebacks are EXTREMELY rare in the US. They were last imported in the year 2000. Back then, they really were considered cheap throwaway pets that sold for aroun $50. These tortoises, likely including yours, were imported from Western Africa.

It is a testament to your care that you have raised this Tortoise since you were 10! Great job. We can help guide you now so that you can give even better care.

First up, these tortoises are from tropical west Africa. In their native range, they experience distinct dry and rainy seasons. When you described your Tortoise hibernating, it was likely becoming less active during your dry season which would have corresponded to winter in your area when relative humidities in our home are much less.

Now that you'v mov d to Bozeman (love it there btw!) your Tortoise is probably experiencing much longer dry periods that are also colder.

In general, I would start by offering up that she should be in a warm enclosed, fairly vivarium for now. Keep her warm- ambient about 75-80 degrees. If daily warm water soaks. I've got to run but I can help you. We might consider moving this conversation to the hingeback forum.

Also, if you are looking for a prepared food, get something that is designed for a box turtle. These tortoises essentially have very similar diets to our box turtles.

But even better, get it some earthworms- you'll be amazed at how she goggles them up, and also mushrooms. In the wild this species eats a ton of mushrooms.

Bottom line, I'm so happy you found this forum and welcome to the hingeback family!

 

[Casjoyce5]

@2turtletom,

Thank you so much for all of your awesome help! It makes me feel much better that not only have you been in Bozeman and it sounds like you've experienced our weather, but that you're a western hingeback owner too! This is so awesome to find out what type of tortoise she actually is and to learn new things that can help me take better care of her! BTW, I'm glad you've been able to enjoy Bozeman... it's an amazing place and we're very happy living here.

It makes so much sense that the dryness from our winter and from our indoor heater, along with our long period of coldness, can cause her to want to be less active. Lately, her humidity in her terrarium has been about 40, and her temperature has been averaging about 70. I will definitely make it warmer for her. Hopefully that average of 40% humidity is ideal, or I will change that too!

I will also grab a good prepared food for her! Every time it rains here, which is pretty often lately, we get these huge worms that come out on our sidewalks... perhaps she'll enjoy these! I never thought of giving her a mushroom! I will get these too! Do you know of a specific mushroom that western hingebacks love?

Thank you so much for welcoming us and for all of your awesome and kind help! We're happy to a part of the community!

 

[2turtletom]

@2turtletom,

Thank you so much for all of your awesome help! It makes me feel much better that not only have you been in Bozeman and it sounds like you've experienced our weather, but that you're a western hingeback owner too! This is so awesome to find out what type of tortoise she actually is and to learn new things that can help me take better care of her! BTW, I'm glad you've been able to enjoy Bozeman... it's an amazing place and we're very happy living here.

It makes so much sense that the dryness from our winter and from our indoor heater, along with our long period of coldness, can cause her to want to be less active. Lately, her humidity in her terrarium has been about 40, and her temperature has been averaging about 70. I will definitely make it warmer for her. Hopefully that average of 40% humidity is ideal, or I will change that too!

I will also grab a good prepared food for her! Every time it rains here, which is pretty often lately, we get these huge worms that come out on our sidewalks... perhaps she'll enjoy these! I never thought of giving her a mushroom! I will get these too! Do you know of a specific mushroom that western hingebacks love?

Thank you so much for welcoming us and for all of your awesome and kind help! We're happy to a part of the community!

Bozeman is the bomb; my good buddy from college worked there and lived in Livingston; he's since moved to Sheridan, Wyoming. My wife and I spent a week there back in 2007, and live flown in there several times then headed to Yellowstone.

Your summers are still pretty dry, so I would try to up the humidity during spring through fall. Year round My ambient temps are around 75 with the temperature under my ceramic heat emitter at about 85. Ideally, you don't want Valentine to go into an estivation period in the winter, conditions can be just a little bit drier, perhaps, but still pretty active and eating frequently. Frequent soaks during winter can help.

Definitley try an earthworm. For mushrooms, I typically give them the traditional white mushrooms or portabella. They've eaten any type I've ever given them. Literally, Valentine will probably go after the, like crack! For prepared foods, they can be easy, but they're not always the best, I try natural foods as much as possible, but try things out- experiment.

Keep us updated. These tortoises are really quite rare and they sell for $500-$800 today. Each and every animal is really important- there are only so many in the US, and you might want to find a male one day if you'd like to help us Western hingeback keepers perpetuate this species here in the US. Keep us update on how Valentine is doing, and good luck, and enjoy those wonderful Bozeman summers; take a hike up Hyalite Canyon for me!

-Tom

 

[Casjoyce5]

Oh you’ve been all around the area then! That’s awesome! I’m originally from Billings, Montana, and have always wanted to come back to Montana so I’m very happy with where we’re at. We’ve been to Hyalite a couple of times so far, but the last time we went up in late April, the gate was still locked so we just hiked up the mountain where we could. But definitely going again because that is one of my favorite places here! So I’ll most definitely take a Hyalite hike for you!

I always try to feed her organic fruits and vegetables only. So we’re literally headed to the Co-Op now to pick her up some organic mushrooms!

I’ve ALWAYS had this weird feeling that she might be rare and perhaps I should mate her. I’ll keep you updated and, again, thank you so so so much!

P.S., my husband is curious as to why Valentine has recently started whipping her tail back and forth. Any advice here is also so appreciated.

 

[2turtletom]

Oh you’ve been all around the area then! That’s awesome! I’m originally from Billings, Montana, and have always wanted to come back to Montana so I’m very happy with where we’re at. We’ve been to Hyalite a couple of times so far, but the last time we went up in late April, the gate was still locked so we just hiked up the mountain where we could. But definitely going again because that is one of my favorite places here! So I’ll most definitely take a Hyalite hike for you!

I always try to feed her organic fruits and vegetables only. So we’re literally headed to the Co-Op now to pick her up some organic mushrooms!

I’ve ALWAYS had this weird feeling that she might be rare and perhaps I should mate her. I’ll keep you updated and, again, thank you so so so much!

P.S., my husband is curious as to why Valentine has recently started whipping her tail back and forth. Any advice here is also so appreciated.

Interesting, I have no idea why she is moving her tail! I've had lunch at the co-op, great place. I wish there was something like that in Ohio..glad you are back in Montana, I flew in and out of Billings last summer. My buddy picked me up at the airport and we headed to red lodge for lunch and then Cooke City for the night over the Beartooth highway before heading into the park. What a drive that was...enjoy. Great place...

Glad to know we got you on e right track with understanding Valentine better. Enjoy!

-Tom