Hello - new sulcata mom here with a quick question

BrowncoatForever

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Hello!

I am very excited to be joining this forum as a new mom of a 1 month old Sulcata tortoise! Since it's impossible to know if the baby tortoise is a male or female, I decided to choose a pronoun and run with it until such time as I can determine whether or not I chose the right one - I'm going with female and have named my little tortoise Toph. I picked her up from Andrew with Arizona Tortoise Compound two days ago and she is (in my eyes) absolutely perfect! My avatar is a picture of her taking a little nap - so adorable.

I did have a question that I'm hoping someone can help with. I know baby tortoises sleep a lot, but Toph here seems.... narcoleptic. I expected that she would hide in her humid hide a lot and sleep there, but instead she just falls asleep everywhere; she will be walking along in the middle of her enclosure and just suddenly stop and fall asleep, all her little limbs spread out. I admit I thought she was dead the first time this happened, but no, she was just asleep. She will go to her food and act like she's going to eat, stretching out her neck to grab the food and then, snap, her eyes close and she's asleep. Then she'll wake up and walk around for a few minutes, and then stretch all her tiny limbs out and snap, her eyes close and she's asleep. Then she'll wake up, move around a bit, maybe go in her humid hide or climb up on her little climbing rock, and then snap, her eyes close and she's asleep. She even fell asleep during her soaking yesterday. It's seriously like she can't keep herself awake, like she's narcoleptic or something. I know the first thing you'll ask is her temperatures - the cool side stays between 78 (in the dead of night) and 85 and the hot side stays between 90 and 100 degrees. And we have a UVB bulb going all day, so she is getting her UV rays.

Do you think this is normal? I mean, it's kind of adorable, but I just want to make sure I shouldn't be concerned about her.

Thanks for all your help!
 

JoesMum

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Hi

Photos of the enclosure and lighting will help us to spot any problems

However, babies ... just like human babies... do tend to drop off in an instant and in most peculiar places.

What temperature do you have under the basking lamp? It must be 95-100F

Have you read the TFO care guides? They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

How to raise a healthy Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

For those that have a young Sulcata
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
 

teresaf

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What are you using as a temp/humidity gauge? Babies need specific requirements when it comes to temperature and humidity in order for them to grow healthy and happy. They are quite fragile and many get sick because folks don't know this. That's why I always recommend an older or adult tortoise for new tortoise owners. If you can 'upload a file' underneath your next reply with pictures of your enclosure (hopefully closed chamber) then members here on the forum will help you with some ideas...
 

BrowncoatForever

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Hello,

Attached is a picture of my enclosure. It is a 20 gallon aquarium type enclosure (I know, not ideal, I intend to build a larger one in the next few months but have seen others on this forum use a 20 gallon aquarium and I already had one). Yes, I have read all of those threads as well as many others - I did a LOT of research before bringing her home. That said, research and execution are definitely two different things, and with all the conflicting information out there (even on this forum alone), it is a little difficult to figure out the best way to accomplish the best environment for her. I am definitely open to suggestions.

About the enclosure: the substrate is a mix of cypress mulch and top soil. I am using a tupperware lid for her water bowl right now so that it is nice and shallow. She has a half log humid hide, which has spaghnum moss in it to keep it humid. For lighting I have a Mega Ray Mercury bulb (100 watt) which provides the UVB rays she needs and lots of heat. That is on the far side of the enclosure - the "hot" side. I keep that on for 12 - 14 hours per day. I have a CHE in the middle plugged into a thermometer that comes on at night to keep the enclosure at a minimum of 80 degrees. I put aluminum foil on the top because the top of the 20 gallon tank is a mesh lid, and the foil helps keep heat and humidity in. I have been struggling a bit with keeping the humidity up - me spraying the tank with a spray bottle only works for about an hour, and I can't spray the tank every hour when I am at work. So I ordered an automatic mister from Amazon and it arrived yesterday - it is MUCH larger than I anticipated and I am currently working on how to make that work with the enclosure I currently have. Once I get that figured out, the humidity levels will be much better (right now they are averaging around 50-60%, which I know isn't high enough). I also attached a picture of the mister, just in case you'd want to see that.

Her temps on the "hot" side (right underneath the UV bulb) range from 95 - 102 degrees during the day. Her temps on the "cold" side range between 85 - 90 during the day, and the entire enclosure tends to dip to 80 at night.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give!IMAG0240.jpgIMAG0241.jpg
 

Yvonne G

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Hi, and welcome!

Do you have your UVB light sitting on screen? The screen filters out most of the beneficial UVB rays. Make sure the temperature over the whole enclosure is warm enough (80F and up).
 

BrowncoatForever

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Hi Yvonne,

I was worried about that too and researched it, and the general consensus seemed to be that the screen would scatter some of the UV rays, but that she would still get plenty to fulfill her UV needs. If you think it would be best, though, I could fashion a new top for the enclosure with a hole that would make sure no rays are scattered.

The whole enclosure does stay above 80 degrees, and it only dips down to 80 at night when the Mega Ray bulb is off.

I figured out the automatic mister and so the humidity levels shouldn't be a problem anymore. It is normal, though, for a baby sulcata to fall asleep all over the place then? It makes sense, but I guess I was just expecting her to sleep only in the humid hide. She seems to prefer sprawling out in the middle of the enclosure.

Thanks!
 

JoesMum

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The consensus that I have seen on here over the years is that light filtered through a screen is better than than that through glass/plexiglass/, but still much worse than unimpeded light.

The bulbs are designed to be used without obstruction and I too recommend removing anything, even mesh, that's in the way.
 

teresaf

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Have you tried dumping a glass of water in the corner of the substrate? that cover should keep the humidity in. You want the dirt wet enough that the underneath is wet but the top layer is only damp
 

Tom

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Your temperatures and your set seem okay to me. I would do a few things differently, but these differences do not account for what you are seeing.

I would not say that what you are seeing is normal, but it is to be expected from one that was started too dry and kept outside all day. Hopefully, with good care and daily soaks, your tortoise will survive and thrive.

Read this thread and compare this to how your tortoise was started:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/
See the difference?

Then read this one describing what goes wrong when they are started too dry:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

I hope these threads will give you a better understanding of what you might be dealing with there.
 

Bee62

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To fall asleep as often as you described it is not normal for a baby sulcata tortoise.
I got my three babies at the age of two months and they had been very active the whole day long, eating and walking around with short breaks but without really sleeping.
If you want to help your baby you must give him more humidity in the enclosure and long daily soaks. Feed only fresh green food and sprinkle it with water. Don`t try to feed hay, your baby needs a lot humidity.

This is important :
The right side of the enclosure is too dark. There must be more light from a bulb that imitates real sunlight spectrum. It is necessary to use the right bulb because reptiles eyes are not as human eyes and need a special light spectrum. That makes reptiles active.

http://www.hagen.com/pdf/reptiles/Exo_Terra_Lighting_Guide_EN.pdf

And please give him a bigger enclosure.
 

BrowncoatForever

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OK, that's what I was worried about, I knew it didn't seem normal. I'm going to focus on increasing moisture - more humidity and longer soakings. Hopefully she'll pull through, I'm really worried now.

And I know the one side looks dark in that picture, it's not actually dark it just came out that way with my camera, the UV rays hit the entire enclosure.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it. Any other advice on helping her bounce back would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you.
 

Big Charlie

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OK, that's what I was worried about, I knew it didn't seem normal. I'm going to focus on increasing moisture - more humidity and longer soakings. Hopefully she'll pull through, I'm really worried now.

And I know the one side looks dark in that picture, it's not actually dark it just came out that way with my camera, the UV rays hit the entire enclosure.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it. Any other advice on helping her bounce back would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you.
Is she eating? Are her eyes open?
 

Bee62

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OK, that's what I was worried about, I knew it didn't seem normal. I'm going to focus on increasing moisture - more humidity and longer soakings. Hopefully she'll pull through, I'm really worried now.

And I know the one side looks dark in that picture, it's not actually dark it just came out that way with my camera, the UV rays hit the entire enclosure.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it. Any other advice on helping her bounce back would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you.


I don`t meant the UV rays. I meant the full sunlight spectrum that torts eyes see. Read the link and you`ll understand what I tried to explain.
 

BrowncoatForever

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Is she eating? Are her eyes open?
Her eyes are open and clear (when she's awake) and she is active to an extent; she moves all over her enclosure and shows curiosity and everything; she moves around a lot when I take her outside as well. But she does sleep about half the day in addition to through the night. She eats, but not as much as I thought she would - I haven't been able to find a solid rule of thumb in my research for how much she should be eating. I know it depends on what she's eating, but is there a general, average amount that I should expect her to eat every day? She loves hibiscus leaves but doesn't eat much of the different grasses I've tried to feed her. I'm just not sure if she's actually eating as much as she should be for her size, or if I should be worried about her appetite.

Thanks!
 

Tom

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Many babies are not all that interested in eating grass, if the breeder didn't spend some time introducing it. You'll have to ask the breeder/seller what foods they took the time to introduce. Hibiscus leaves are good, but use a wide variety of weeds, succulents and other greens too. Most babies will eat a pile that is about the same size as them.
 

BrowncoatForever

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OK that's kind of what I thought. She's definitely not eating a pile equal to her current size right now, but hopefully with the increased humidity she'll get her appetite back. Maybe she also was just stressed from the move from the breeder to me. I have an array of weeds and succulents to feed her and will keep trying to introduce new things to her and stop worrying so much about the grass.

Thank you all again!!!
 

Bee62

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When you want your baby to eat more, you can offer him romaine lettuce, lamb`s lettuce and chicoree too.
The idea is to get the baby eating more. If he eats more he will grow and when he grows he can eat more and new things that he doesen`t like yet.
Grocery greens like these three that I mentioned are not so bad as often told.
If your baby gets bigger you can add more and more various things to his food, but now every eaten leaf of lettuce is a sign for life.
That`s my opinion.
 
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