Hello! We are new to the Sulcata family and wanted to say hello!

[OldWorld]

Hello, my family and I have recently adopted a Sulcata Tortoise we met at a local reptile show. The Folks there told us he was recently found wondering in a Christmas Tree farm abandoned. They believed he was around 12 years old and weighed 32lbs.

I could tell right away he hadn't had very good care in his previous life. The first and most obvious sign was that someone had spray painted his shell blue. He was also pyramiding due to what I am learning was an improper diet and lighting. Lastly he has a hole drilled in the rear of his shell for anchoring... all in all he needed a new home and I felt like we were supposed to be it.

A little about us. We are long time animal enthusiast, having raised everything from Green Tree Pythons to Caimans. We now run a large licensed dog kennel specializing in the Cane Corso Italiano. You can take a look at our program here at oldworldcanecorso.com (Note: I am very aware that we should never leave our dogs alone with our new Tortoise) All this said, we are animal people and look forward to all there is to learn from you kind folks here.

At this point in time Oliver or "Ollie" is doing well. He is staying in our sunken living room. He has his warm spot in the corner consisting of a large UVB Bulb and a 250 Watt Ceramic heater for night time warming. He is eating Mazuri Tortoise Food.

But from here I'm a bit stumped. I live in Washington State, so although I know he needs sunlight I'm not sure the safe temps or how to structure his outside time... I'm also looking for a better idea if healthy diet options

All in all, I'm here to learn.Thanks for reading

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello and welcome to the TFO from AZ . Thank you for taking someone's drop off tort and helping it with its problem . Your torts main diet is grass and weeds . But I'm sorry I don't have a large tort like yours . But a expert should get on line later but I gess they need their sleep

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

There is no way to know his age and 32 pounds would be tiny for a 12 year old, but certainly possible in the wrong circumstances.

Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. It is not caused by diet or lighting.

I love the Cane Corso and have worked with several now. Great dogs with the right handler.

About Ollie's living situation: These are tropical tortoises. The daily highs over there are seldom below 90 and often over 100, all year long. Night time temps will occasional drop into the high 60s in "winter" but because they are in their underground burrows, they never experience temps that low. Living in a cold room on the floor is not a good way to go, even if he does have one warm spot. Be very careful with overhead lighting for a tortoise that large. What happens is that the temperature difference is too great between the top of the carapace and the floor, so if you've got it warm enough to warm the tortoise all the way through, it will be too hot on the top of the carapace and you will damage it. Sort of like a slow cooker. If its cool enough on top to not do damage, then it won't warm enough on the bottom, especially down on the floor in a cold area. This problem is best solved with pig blankets (heat mats) and overhead radiant heat panels. I suggest you make a box like this one so that he has a warm area to retreat to: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-86632.html
Warming the whole room into the mid to high 70's at FLOOR level will help too. You could keep this box in a corner of your sunken living room and he would have his own warm "burrow" to get warm in whenever he needed.

Some people in climates like yours build large, well insulated, heated, outdoor sheds for them to live in. They make a "doggie" door so the tortoises can get in and out on warm enough days, and keep them locked in on cold stormy days. They often report that their tortoises experience frustration at being locked up this way, but this is the challenge of keeping a large tropical animal in a cold climate.

Diet: Here is a diet sheet for you: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html
One good thing about your climate is that you will have no shortage of fresh grass and weeds for most of the year. Grass hay can make up a large component of your tortoise's diet, but you will likely have to introduce it slowly at first. I would start by feeding your tortoise on a bed of grass hay. This will get them to associate their food with the taste, smell and texture of the hay. After a couple of weeks of that, use some scissors and finely chop up a small handful of hay. Soak it in warm water for an hour or so and then mix it in with the days feeding. Start with just a little bit and gradually increase the amount over time. Eventually they will start eating the dry hay all on its own. Make sure there is constant access to water in a proper shallow vessel of some sort during this process and it won't hurt to soak him once or twice a week either.

Good luck and thanks for rescuing this guy from a bad situation.

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!!

 

[OldWorld]

Thanks guys for the response and the info is more than helpful. I'll get started on better heating and diet right away. Glad to know this place is here for issues along the way.

So another question. I'm planning on building his outdoor inclosure come this summer. If I order the pig blanket and start him on the better diet will he be ok for a few months in the house with us? If we want to bring him in with us on and off in the future, is this damaging him in any? I guess what I am asking is do people often raise Tortoises like mine in there homes when the weather is bad for long periods of time?

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Remember torts taste test everything like carpet fiber and unlike cats torts have a real bad time with hair balls

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

It's good to see the new family of “Big Blue" has made it to the forum. Thank you for joining and taking him on. Mary Ester is some strong woman, huh?
I have built for my big kids one of those heated dog houses that Tom was speaking of. Ask questions and we all will be happy to share and help.

 

[sibi]

Hi and welcome. Tom has given you some really good advice! You can't undo the pyramiding that is already formed, but you can prevent new ones from forming by keeping his hide humid. Humidity for sulcatas should be about 80%. I have a few juvenile sulcatas, and I have created an outside enclosure by converting a shed into an insulated shed for year round living. This terrible winter had no affects on my sulcatas because temps were 83% and humidity was 70-80% all winter long. I had heat blankets and uvb lights for them. To create the humidity, I have two humidifiers that create more than enough humidity for the entire 10 x 12' shed.

please create an environment of about 80% humidity with ambient heat of 80 and above. Your sulcata would feel so much better and you can prevent further damage due to dry conditions.

Of course, diet and lighting along with exercise are also important for good health. Do all these things, and your rescue will thrive with you!

 

[OldWorld]

It's good to see the new family of “Big Blue" has made it to the forum. Thank you for joining and taking him on. Mary Ester is some strong woman, huh?
I have built for my big kids one of those heated dog houses that Tom was speaking of. Ask questions and we all will be happy to share and help.

Hey thanks for the check in. Seeing as you know a bit about him is there anything else you can tell me about "Big Blue"? He is wonderful so far and I'd love to know more. She guesses he was around 12 years old but Tom mentioned that would be small and that it was hard to tell. Is there any indictors one can look for to determine better his age?

Thanks again?

 

[Yvonne G]

There are many ways of taking care of tortoises, and you must decide which works best for your situation, weather and location. In my opinion, your tortoise doesn't need a humid shed. Your tortoise is big enough and the past few years of growth have been smooth. The pyramiding happened when he was quite a bit smaller than he is now. I got my sulcata, Dudley, when he was about your tortoise's size, and before I knew about humidity and pyramiding, so I just set him up outside with a heated mini-shed. The only humidity he gets is ambient from when I water the tortoise yard, or when it rains. He hasn't gotten any more pyramiding since I've had him, and he's about 110lbs now.

Living in Washington, where the climate is quite wet most of the time, I think you can forego the humid shed idea or having a humidifier. In my opinion, your ambient humidity is enough for the tortoise.

 

[Tom]

So another question. I'm planning on building his outdoor inclosure come this summer. If I order the pig blanket and start him on the better diet will he be ok for a few months in the house with us? If we want to bring him in with us on and off in the future, is this damaging him in any? I guess what I am asking is do people often raise Tortoises like mine in there homes when the weather is bad for long periods of time?

This is dependent largely on the temperatures you are able to provide. If the whole room is 80 down on the floor, and the floor itself is 80 or more, plus you have a warmer spot for him to get into, then indoor visits in a tortoise safe area are fine. If the room temp is 65 and the cold hard floor is 55, it will be an issue. Think summertime in Phoenix, AZ. THAT is the sort of environment these guys come from. Now in Phoenix and in their native range, they escape the extreme heat by going underground. In a temperate climate like yours, you don't have to simulate the 114 degree above ground temperatures, but they do need one area where they can get their body temp up to around 100, and the rest of the room can simulate the more moderate temps that they would experience down in their burrows. In my man made burrows the temperature hovers right around 80 all summer long with no heat. We have days around 100 and nights in the 60's all summer long. Adults like yours can tolerate cooler nights, but they NEED a warm pace to heat up during the day. As I said above, providing this in a safe way can be a challenge. Let them get too cold for too long and they will get sick and possibly die.

Thermometers and infrared temp guns are indispensable tools for you to assess and adjust your temperatures.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Hey thanks for the check in. Seeing as you know a bit about him is there anything else you can tell me about "Big Blue"? He is wonderful so far and I'd love to know more. She guesses he was around 12 years old but Tom mentioned that would be small and that it was hard to tell. Is there any indictors one can look for to determine better his age?
Thanks again?

Really there is no way to gauge the age of a tortoise unless you know the hatch date or at the least, the hatch month. Understand, these are a very long lived animal. During what would be termed “lean years" in the real world, or poor husbandry in captivity, a tortoise will switch to survival mode which is staying alive vs. unproductive growth. Does that make sense? Of the six sulcata that have either been surrendered, or adopted by me, only one came with a, “we got her in '94 and the prior owner told use she was a year old." So I guess she would be 10ish. The others the info. I got was very vague. That said, she is 48bs. and very smooth whereas the other, “older"ones are lighter and pyramided. I think Mary was simply basing the age guess on her years of experience of adoption.
Also, if you put in other factors, such as two raised together, you will see dramatic differences. One tortoise always bullies the other. Equalling one getting the best environment and food for growth and the other not. I have two that I have taken in where there is an easy fourfold size difference between them. If one were to see the smaller and guess at an age they would be inclined to think it was maybe three to four years maximum, whereas the larger of the two might be thought of as seven or eight years.
Hoping that this hasn't been too much information.LOL... I really just want you to understand completely. Again, feel free to ask questions.

 

[OldWorld]

Ok thank you all... Ok so I have been given a great start to this. I have a plan for environment care and kinds of food. Now for my first two "Tort Noob" questions.

#1. I see all kinds of food I should be feeding listed clearly but I am not clear on how to determine how much food how often. I may have missed this so feel free to resend me the link but if someone could tell me a way to determine if my guy is eating enough that would be helpful. Also i've heard some talk about growth rings, is there someone who can explain this? Is this a good way to determine if I am feeing enough over time?

#2. Regarding his size and age. Is there an age that his size and shape wouldn't make him over? Maybe a silly question but can one determine he's definitely not older than 25 years lets say, and he's not any younger than 3? I don't know I'm just curious if he is stunted and not gonna become full size or if where he is and how he has been fed is inconsequential now and all will be fine?

 

[hturner]

Beautiful Tort! Welcome

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here are the two I received last summer. Raised together…poor environment, poor food, and dominance.
At the size big blue is, he should primarily being allowed to free graze in the yard. Grass and more grass is what he should be getting at this stage of his life. Many who don't have access to a yard, will feed lots of grass hay. In our parts, I'd shoot for an eastern Oregon 5 grain grass hay. From what I hear, if you sprits the hay with water it helps bring out the odor if the hay which helps make it desirable to them.

 

[OldWorld]

Here are the two I received last summer. Raised together…poor environment, poor food, and dominance.
At the size big blue is, he should primarily being allowed to free graze in the yard. Grass and more grass is what he should be getting at this stage of his life. Many who don't have access to a yard, will feed lots of grass hay. In our parts, I'd shoot for an eastern Oregon 5 grain grass hay. From what I hear, if you sprits the hay with water it helps bring out the odor if the hay which helps make it desirable to them.

Ok great! What about poisonous plants? I'm in Washington as you know and would love to let him securely rome but we live in a heavily wooded area. Full of grass, fresh plants and ferns. Can he forage freely without concern?

 

[dmmj]

Welcome, sad to hear people still drill holes in their shell's

 

[lismar79]

Welcome & God Bless you for taking him into your family. It sounds like you are asking all the right questions so he's already doing much better than he was. From what all I have read, Sulcata's are not known to over eat. I am sure someone more experience can provide better info than that. Mine is young young & I feed twice a day a pile about the size of her shell. Grazing makes it much easier so lets hope for better weather soon. Also, the sooner you get him on Hay the better for both of you. Then you have a good source with other approved food throughout the winter. Good Luck!

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here is what I find to be invaluable.
There is an app called, “Garden Compass" it is an app created by Ortho to help folks id plants to kill so they can purchase poison from them to do so. Here's the best part; you take a picture of the plant,(doesn't have to be a weed) and give light background info. about it and where you live. In the app, you email that to them and normally in 24 hrs. they email you back with the names of the plant. Then I take that info. and load the name into the website at http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_database_14.asp
I have found it is best to give the Latin name not the English name for best results. This is one of the cheats I use to seem smart. LOL.

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All of that long windedness aside, azaleas and rhododendrons are poisonous. At least to mammals so I don't risk it. Also, while in the yard, clean the area of dog crap first. Tortoises are really drawn to it and although at the least it's disgusting, heart worm meds passed through the dog feces will poison a tortoise.