Help! I bought my tortoise a new tortoise table and he's not happy!

Winston's mom

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Aug 19, 2020
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Hi all,

I adopted my 4 year old Russian tortoise from a couple last week, who had him in a small vivarium/ tank that was about 2 feet x 1 foot with beech wood chips as a substrate.

We've bought him a tortoise table from Reptile Centre which is 90 x 45 x 21.5 cm (roughly 3 foot x 2 foot). I consulted with them on which is the best substrate and they said to use ProRep Tortoise Life Bio Substrate which would be better for him.

I bought the complete tortoise table set-up so he now has a D3 UV basking lamp and the basking spot is around 31.5 C degrees.

I've been told this is much better for him, but he's just scratching at the sides to get out all of the time!

We also have a little space in our living room where we let him roam supervised for a bit, and we have a little enclosure to take him outside when the weather is nice so he can roam around (supervised) on the grass. We live in the UK so he'll be an indoor tort but will take him outside (supervised!) weather permitting.

Will he settle once he gets used to it? Help! I feel really bad hearing him scratch to get out :(

Thank you!
 

Minority2

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Jul 30, 2018
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Tortoise Hell
Hi all,

I adopted my 4 year old Russian tortoise from a couple last week, who had him in a small vivarium/ tank that was about 2 feet x 1 foot with beech wood chips as a substrate.

We've bought him a tortoise table from Reptile Centre which is 90 x 45 x 21.5 cm (roughly 3 foot x 2 foot). I consulted with them on which is the best substrate and they said to use ProRep Tortoise Life Bio Substrate which would be better for him.

I bought the complete tortoise table set-up so he now has a D3 UV basking lamp and the basking spot is around 31.5 C degrees.

I've been told this is much better for him, but he's just scratching at the sides to get out all of the time!

We also have a little space in our living room where we let him roam supervised for a bit, and we have a little enclosure to take him outside when the weather is nice so he can roam around (supervised) on the grass. We live in the UK so he'll be an indoor tort but will take him outside (supervised!) weather permitting.

Will he settle once he gets used to it? Help! I feel really bad hearing him scratch to get out :(

Thank you!

The people that sold you all this stuff are incorrect. They're using a lot of old outdated and unsafe advice.

1. Adult Russian tortoises require a minimum of an 8ft x 4ft enclosure. You read that correctly. That's how much space a small species of tortoise requires to stay active and healthy.
2. The little table they sold you is overpriced and poorly designed. I've already covered a number of reasons why they suck just recently in another separately thread but will do so again if asked.
3. That particular substrate is filled with clay, sand, and topsoil, none of which is healthy or safe for tortoises in captive environments. Coco coir and or orchid bark are the best choices for Russians.
4. What specific type of light bulbs did they sell you. Some bulbs can cause temporary to permanent blindness. Some bulbs dry out carapaces and cause to tortoise to feel lethargic like symptoms.
5. Tortoises should not be allowed to roam in the house or on the floor. It's not good for their legs nor their health. Keep them either indoors in their enclosure or outdoors in an outdoor enclosure where he is protected, escape proof, and supervised.

Read this guide and follow it's guidelines:

Show us pictures of the entire enclosure and each light bulb (not just fixtures because we can't see what the shape of the bulb is inside) to ensure that what you're using is something safe, that isn't going to fail, and will not cause the tortoise harm.
 

Ubercat

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Aug 4, 2020
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76
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Sheffield
I was in a similar position to yourselves a few weeks ago - I got an old wardrobe from Facebook for £10, which seems to be working fine. I checked it was made of actual wood, not MDF or anything like that :) I got 70l of reptile quality orchid bark for £25 and 70l (1 large block) of coconut coir for £14 from eBay. These are my cheap tricks :)
 

Winston's mom

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Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
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London UK
I was in a similar position to yourselves a few weeks ago - I got an old wardrobe from Facebook for £10, which seems to be working fine. I checked it was made of actual wood, not MDF or anything like that :) I got 70l of reptile quality orchid bark for £25 and 70l (1 large block) of coconut coir for £14 from eBay. These are my cheap tricks :)

Thank you for that :) I will have a look for something to replace his table. I'm really miffed at Reptile Centre because I was emailing them loads asking the right things for him, and even looking online etc. and it all sounded like the table was good for indoor space. Do you mind my asking how large the wardrobe is? Need to measure up to find one to fit the space in my flat!

Also, did you mix the coconut coir and orchid bark together? He was using beech wood chips that he seemed happy with when we adopted him, but I've heard these aren't good for them. Again Reptile Centre had recommended the bio substrate saying that it was better (although they also sell beech wood).

Thanks in advance for your help! :)
 

Winston's mom

New Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
London UK
The people that sold you all this stuff are incorrect. They're using a lot of old outdated and unsafe advice.

1. Adult Russian tortoises require a minimum of an 8ft x 4ft enclosure. You read that correctly. That's how much space a small species of tortoise requires to stay active and healthy.
2. The little table they sold you is overpriced and poorly designed. I've already covered a number of reasons why they suck just recently in another separately thread but will do so again if asked.
3. That particular substrate is filled with clay, sand, and topsoil, none of which is healthy or safe for tortoises in captive environments. Coco coir and or orchid bark are the best choices for Russians.
4. What specific type of light bulbs did they sell you. Some bulbs can cause temporary to permanent blindness. Some bulbs dry out carapaces and cause to tortoise to feel lethargic like symptoms.
5. Tortoises should not be allowed to roam in the house or on the floor. It's not good for their legs nor their health. Keep them either indoors in their enclosure or outdoors in an outdoor enclosure where he is protected, escape proof, and supervised.

Read this guide and follow it's guidelines:

Show us pictures of the entire enclosure and each light bulb (not just fixtures because we can't see what the shape of the bulb is inside) to ensure that what you're using is something safe, that isn't going to fail, and will not cause the tortoise harm.

Thanks, I've attached images of the table I bought and the bulb/ bulb housing and bracket arm used which has been fitted to the table. Thanks for your advice- looking for replacement table solution now! I will also replace his substrate. I'm really not happy with the Reptile Centre as they recommended all of this stuff, and I kept emailing them with queries!
 

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Winston's mom

New Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
London UK
I was in a similar position to yourselves a few weeks ago - I got an old wardrobe from Facebook for £10, which seems to be working fine. I checked it was made of actual wood, not MDF or anything like that :) I got 70l of reptile quality orchid bark for £25 and 70l (1 large block) of coconut coir for £14 from eBay. These are my cheap tricks :)

Forgot to ask- did you buy coarse or fine orchid bark? Thanks!
 

Winston's mom

New Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
London UK
Thanks, I've attached images of the table I bought and the bulb/ bulb housing and bracket arm used which has been fitted to the table. Thanks for your advice- looking for replacement table solution now! I will also replace his substrate. I'm really not happy with the Reptile Centre as they recommended all of this stuff, and I kept emailing them with queries!

Also forgot to ask, is there any fire risk with orchid bark chips? Do you need coarse, regular or fine grade? Thanks :)
 

Ubercat

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
76
Location (City and/or State)
Sheffield
Thank you for that :) I will have a look for something to replace his table. I'm really miffed at Reptile Centre because I was emailing them loads asking the right things for him, and even looking online etc. and it all sounded like the table was good for indoor space. Do you mind my asking how large the wardrobe is? Need to measure up to find one to fit the space in my flat!

Also, did you mix the coconut coir and orchid bark together? He was using beech wood chips that he seemed happy with when we adopted him, but I've heard these aren't good for them. Again Reptile Centre had recommended the bio substrate saying that it was better (although they also sell beech wood).

Thanks in advance for your help! :)

Well, The wardrobe is on its back, obviously :)I’m not an expert - literally rescued Khan three weeks ago! But I’ve been following the the experts on here.

They are saying the minimum size is 8X4.” I mixed organic topsoil (eBay, but not particularly cheap) with the coir - he REALLY liked that. The bark came today, so I’ve mixed it in best I could.

I suppose the pet shops are all about money, and sending us to Facebook and eBay isn’t going to make them any! And the individual pet shop workers can’t be experts on everything... I know more about dogs than tortoises, and I definitely wouldn’t buy a puppy from one, or believe everything they say. I’m so glad I found this forum!
Good luck!
 

Golden Greek Tortoise 567

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Well, The wardrobe is on its back, obviously :)I’m not an expert - literally rescued Khan three weeks ago! But I’ve been following the the experts on here.

They are saying the minimum size is 8X4.” I mixed organic topsoil (eBay, but not particularly cheap) with the coir - he REALLY liked that. The bark came today, so I’ve mixed it in best I could.

I suppose the pet shops are all about money, and sending us to Facebook and eBay isn’t going to make them any! And the individual pet shop workers can’t be experts on everything... I know more about dogs than tortoises, and I definitely wouldn’t buy a puppy from one, or believe everything they say. I’m so glad I found this forum!
Good luck!
I would not use organic topsoil or any kind of soil. The people who make that stuff just mix up a jumble of plants that may or may not have pesticides on them.
 

Tom

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Forgot to ask- did you buy coarse or fine orchid bark? Thanks!
Fine grade. Pet stores are full of misinformation, over priced and dangerous products, and bad advice. This happens all over the world including here.

Please read the care sheet. Substrates, lighting and so much more is covered there. Orchid bark is not a fire hazard and it will be damp anyway. Beech chips are not a suitable tortoise substrate, nor is soil, nor is the Pets at Home stuff with the limestone bits in it.
 

Minority2

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Jul 30, 2018
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Location (City and/or State)
Tortoise Hell
Thanks, I've attached images of the table I bought and the bulb/ bulb housing and bracket arm used which has been fitted to the table. Thanks for your advice- looking for replacement table solution now! I will also replace his substrate. I'm really not happy with the Reptile Centre as they recommended all of this stuff, and I kept emailing them with queries!

The problem is that most of these non-breeding pet shop owners just don't know the difference. They, like you, many years ago, got a hold of some tortoise care sheets, and kept using that specific, decades old information, to this very day. It's not always that they're purposely ignoring new, safer advice because of profit. It's just hard to believe a total stranger coming to your store and detailing your errors when the store owner themselves think they're the more experienced person in the room.

This is the main reason why most of the updated care advice aren't spreading throughout the rest of the tortoise communities as fast as it should. It's hard to know who to believe without scientifically backed studies. Some people may or may not take the type of studies made from members of the tortoise forum seriously.
 
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