HELP NEEDED! New owner to 2 Horsefield Tortoise - I have some questions!

Tortoiseowner93

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Mar 13, 2017
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Hi.

I got 2 horsefield tortoise yesterday and I was just looking for a little help and advice. The two tortoise, we have been told, are around a year old.

We keep them in a Vivarium that was built and put together for us by the man at the reptile shop, who installed the UV light, heat lamp and thermostat.

My first question is what temperature should I keep the viv? The thermostat we have is currently set to 26 degrees Celsius and the heat lamp turns back on if the temperature drops 0.5 degrees below this. Is this a suitable temperature? Both of the tortoises spend a lot of their time trying to burrow in the back corner of the viv, on the side of the heat lamp. Is this normal or does it mean that the viv is too hot/too cold? The consistent temperature staya the same way overnight, is this okay or should I be dropping the temperature overnight?

Also, what sort of things should I be feeding the tortoise? We have been feeding them Kale, spinach, rocket and yesterday they had some grated carrot too. Are these good food sources? As I have read that fresh weeds, such as dandelion, from the garden are much better. We also have some calcium powder to add to their food, how often should I be adding this? I was told that they were previously having it added every 3 or so weeks.

Finally, I have questions in regards to the substrate being used. I believe we currently have wood chips, which I have read aren't they best as horsfields like to dig and burrow and I have witnessed this first hand. What is a suitable alternative to the current substrate we have, that won't irritate the tortoises but will also allow them to dig more freely?

I have attached a couple of pictures of their current set up. Thank you in advance for any help and advice!
 

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JoesMum

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Hello and welcome to TFO

Sadly, it looks like you have been given outdated information about the care of your Torts.

I can tell because that vivarium is set up far too dry. Wood shavings are not a good substrate. Your torts needs warm humidity to grow healthily.

You need to read the following which are written by TFO species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

They should answer most of your questions and help you get the setup right.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Care of baby Testudo
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

It is entirely normal for torts to hide away when they are subjected to change. They're frightened.

You must soak these two for at least 20 minutes in warm water every day to make sure they stay hydrated. Use a flat bottomed bowl like a washing up bowl that they can't see over or through and have the water deep enough to come just up over the join between the shell and the plastron.

Finally, others will warn you that Hermann's are not social and should not be kept as pairs. Bullying, both mental and physical, is common as they defend territory and can result in the decline and sickness of the subordinate tort. You will need to separate these two in the longer term. Possibly sooner than you expect.
 

ZEROPILOT

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Welcome.
Are Horsefield tortoises AKA Hermans or Russians?
Two Russian tortoises housed together would be a quick recipe for disaster as they will fight.
On the positive side, it looks like you got the correct lighting.;)
Does your UVB tube have a plastic sleeve on it? I can't tell. If it does, the sleeve will have to be removed because only the light, not the UVB can pass through.
A good substrate is something that will absorb water and leave humidity but not stay soaking wet. Orchid bark is my preference. Plain Orchid bark. Not the stuff with Perlite etc. mixed in.
 
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Tom

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Hi.

I got 2 horsefield tortoise yesterday and I was just looking for a little help and advice. The two tortoise, we have been told, are around a year old.

We keep them in a Vivarium that was built and put together for us by the man at the reptile shop, who installed the UV light, heat lamp and thermostat.

My first question is what temperature should I keep the viv? The thermostat we have is currently set to 26 degrees Celsius and the heat lamp turns back on if the temperature drops 0.5 degrees below this. Is this a suitable temperature? Both of the tortoises spend a lot of their time trying to burrow in the back corner of the viv, on the side of the heat lamp. Is this normal or does it mean that the viv is too hot/too cold? The consistent temperature staya the same way overnight, is this okay or should I be dropping the temperature overnight?

Also, what sort of things should I be feeding the tortoise? We have been feeding them Kale, spinach, rocket and yesterday they had some grated carrot too. Are these good food sources? As I have read that fresh weeds, such as dandelion, from the garden are much better. We also have some calcium powder to add to their food, how often should I be adding this? I was told that they were previously having it added every 3 or so weeks.

Finally, I have questions in regards to the substrate being used. I believe we currently have wood chips, which I have read aren't they best as horsfields like to dig and burrow and I have witnessed this first hand. What is a suitable alternative to the current substrate we have, that won't irritate the tortoises but will also allow them to dig more freely?

I have attached a couple of pictures of their current set up. Thank you in advance for any help and advice!

Hello and welcome. Glad you found us.

Sounds like the pet store made a good sale and sold you some things you don't need. Here is what I see:
1. That UV tube is great. They got that part right.
2. Substrate should be either damp coco coir or damp fine grade orchid bark. They sell some bad ones over there for tortoises. One type has little limestone bits in it. It is not a good idea to encourage a tortoise to eat its substrate to satisfy calcium cravings. Wood chips and other bone dry substrates are just not good for tortoises, and especially not babies.
3. This one is important: You do not need a thermostat for a horsfield, and if you do use one, it should not control the basking bulb. Your basking bulb should be set on a timer, not a thermostat. The "sun" should not go on and off all day every day. The sun should come up, warm up the enclosure all day and provide a basking area, and then go down at night so temps can cool. You can either change the bulb wattage to get the correct temperature under the bulb, or use a rheostat to dial it in. 26 is fine for an ambient temp during the day, but your tortoises need a basking area of around 37 degrees directly under the bulb, so they can warm up as they would in the sun outside in a warm climate.
4. Even more important: They cannot live as a pair. This is really dangerous and bad for them. Here is one example of what can go wrong:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-day-for-baby.114328/
If this thread is not enough to convince you, we can show you more evidence. They each need their own enclosure. Sometimes juveniles can work out in groups, but not pairs. The issue with groups is, what will you do with them when they all reach maturity and the makes go to war? Or when the females go to war, which is common in this scrappy, territorial species?

Here is my care sheet for this species. It explains things in more detail:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

GIve it a go and then come back with all your questions.
 
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Tortoiseowner93

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Thank you for your replies. I have had a read of all the information and it has been very useful.

Firstly, when initially asking the owner of the reptile shop whether a table or a vivarium would be better, we were told, that due to the current time of year here in England, that trying to heat a table would be difficult and that we should therefore opt for the vivarium, which we did. I can now, however, see the benefits of a table over a vivarium, especially in regards to the temperature regulation. Was this advice correct? Would I find it difficult to keep the tortoises warm enough on a table? Or should I definitely look into obtaining two separate ones so the tortoises are separated? Could I still use the same UV light and bulb that I currently have with a tortoise table?

I will also been changing the substrate on Thursday when I am able to get into town to purchase a replacement - I can see now that the current wooden chips that were provided are not good for the tortoises.

I was also not aware of the dangers of having the tortoises in the same enclosure, I will definitely look into separating the two.
 

JoesMum

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Young torts like this need a closed chamber. Something with a lid to keep the humidity high. A tortoise table is not suitable until they're much older
 

Tom

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Firstly, when initially asking the owner of the reptile shop whether a table or a vivarium would be better, we were told, that due to the current time of year here in England, that trying to heat a table would be difficult and that we should therefore opt for the vivarium, which we did. I can now, however, see the benefits of a table over a vivarium, especially in regards to the temperature regulation. Was this advice correct? Would I find it difficult to keep the tortoises warm enough on a table? Or should I definitely look into obtaining two separate ones so the tortoises are separated? Could I still use the same UV light and bulb that I currently have with a tortoise table?

None of us were born knowing this stuff. It takes a long time to learn it all. I am fearful of overwhelming new people with too much info that conflicts with what they discovered during their "research", or what the pet store told them, but there is a sense of urgency because of the animals involved. The tortoises need the correct care ASAP.

Pet shops are infamous for dispensing old, incorrect, out-dated info. Many of them mean well, they just don't understand tortoise care. Some have to follow corporate policies and sell the products that they stock, even though those products aren't right for the animal. This is just something to keep in mind as we go along. Pet shops have to sell stuff to stay in business. I don't need to sell you anything. My interest is in helping tortoises stay healthy and promoting the hobby and animals that I love. When new people have a good experience with their tortoise, they stick around and encourage other people to get into it.

Vivariums (closed chambers) are better in the vast majority of cases, and especially for young ones. It is much easier to maintain the correct temperatures and humidity in a small closed space than it is in an entire room. You can use your current UV bulb in an open topped enclosure like a table. You'll just have to devise a way to mount it.

What concerns me most about your set up, is that you don't have a basking area that will stay lit. The basking lamp should be on a timer, not a thermostat.
 

Tortoiseowner93

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Following on from the advice I received I have made some changes to my enclosure.

Firstly I put a deep layer of soil as the substrate with just a light dusting of wood chippings on top. I intend to keep up humidity by occasionally using a spray bottle to add some water into the air.

Secondly, the tortoises are still in a viv, but I had a shorter piece of glass cut for the front to allow some ventilation in the viv, while at the same time not leaving it completely open for all of the heat to escape.

We obtained a second thermostat so that the hot side and cool side can both have their temperatures measured, and we have 23 degrees c at the cool end and between 31-32 at the warm end. The heating lamp is no longer on a timer and stays on for 12 hours, the same time as the UV lamp. We have also added a hide in the centre of the enclosure and decreased the size of the water pool as we feel the new size is more appropriate for the size of the viv.

The tortoises are still living together, however, we are keeping a close eye on them and are prepared to separate them if any issues arise.
 

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JoesMum

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Following on from the advice I received I have made some changes to my enclosure.

Firstly I put a deep layer of soil as the substrate with just a light dusting of wood chippings on top. I intend to keep up humidity by occasionally using a spray bottle to add some water into the air.
That won't work. To keep the humidity up with the heat of the lamps you must make all the substrate evenly damp. Using the spray bottle only slows the rate at which the substrate dries out. Aline it is useless for keeping humidity up.

You need to take all the decor out, tip water in from a jug and mix it thoroughly with your hands. Repeat until all the substrate is damp. You will need to repeat the exercise every few weeks using the spray bottle a couple of times a day in between times.

Bullying is not always as obvious as you would expect. "Cuddling up" is simply one tort trying to stop the other from sleeping in a particular place for example.

If one of these torts fails to grow or put on weight as quickly as the other then separate them immediately
 

Kasia

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That won't work. To keep the humidity up with the heat of the lamps you must make all the substrate evenly damp. Using the spray bottle only slows the rate at which the substrate dries out. Aline it is useless for keeping humidity up.

You need to take all the decor out, tip water in from a jug and mix it thoroughly with your hands. Repeat until all the substrate is damp. You will need to repeat the exercise every few weeks using the spray bottle a couple of times a day in between times.

Bullying is not always as obvious as you would expect. "Cuddling up" is simply one tort trying to stop the other from sleeping in a particular place for example.

If one of these torts fails to grow or put on weight as quickly as the other then separate them immediately
I agree with all that has been written above. It will not work. Do you have a place for an outdoor enclosure? Your current place is quite small. Russians are bullies, small enclosed space does not help.
 

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