Help! Septicemia in Sulcata or normal happening from growth?

BeardooWeirdoo

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Could this be Septicemia, or does this happen from shell growth? No changes in Mabel’s behavior. Still eating constantly and basking. Been using Betadine (50/50 with water) for 5 days. Not getting worse but not getting better. Changed bedding from Cypress Mulch to Orchard Grass in case that was too rough on plastron. Also quit misting tank twice a day for humidity purposes in case that caused this. Give calcium every other day. Feed Red Leaf, Green Leaf, Romaine, Spring Mix. Basking spot 95-105 depending on area of slate he/she lays on. Any help would be appreciated. I have seen two other pictures on the internet exactly like this but nobody definitively said what this was or what happened, etc… I’ve had Mabel since October. Noticed this 6 days ago.
 

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wellington

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First stop the betadine. That should not be used that often. Use an over the counter antibiotic cream
Second do not stop the humidity misting. Which even though is good, is not really doing the proper job of keeping humidity at 80% day and night. A closed chamber is needed
Third, you must improve the diet. Add mazuri tortoise pellets, cactus, endive, ridicchio. Get some orchard hay pellets feed after they have been soaked, same with mazuri.
calcium should only be added a couple times a week.
get rid of the orchard hay as a substrate and go back to either coconut coir or orchid bark.
I believe it's fairly normal for some to look like that. @Tom can verify.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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First stop the betadine. That should not be used that often. Use an over the counter antibiotic cream
Second do not stop the humidity misting. Which even though is good, is not really doing the proper job of keeping humidity at 80% day and night. A closed chamber is needed
Third, you must improve the diet. Add mazuri tortoise pellets, cactus, endive, ridicchio. Get some orchard hay pellets feed after they have been soaked, same with mazuri.
calcium should only be added a couple times a week.
get rid of the orchard hay as a substrate and go back to either coconut coir or orchid bark.
I believe it's fairly normal for some to look like that. @Tom can verify.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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Thank you so much for replying. Can you please specify the name of an antibiotic cream(s) safe to use? I will stop the Betadine. Hopefully I didn’t harm him/her by using it. I will switch back the bedding and misting and come up with something to make a more enclosed chamber. I have tried the Zoo Med Grassland Pellets but Mabel didn’t want anything to do with them. I will try again and add more variety as well. With going back to misting, should I stop weekly soaks. A lot of times Mabel sits in her water dish as well on her own.
 
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Tom

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Thank you so much for replying. Can you please specify the name of an antibiotic cream(s) safe to use? I will stop the Betadine. Hopefully I didn’t harm him/her by using it. I will switch back the bedding and misting and come up with something to make a more enclosed chamber. I have tried the Zoo Med Grassland Pellets but Mabel didn’t want anything to do with them. I will try again and add more variety as well. With going back to misting, should I stop weekly soaks. A lot of times Mabel sits in her water dish as well on her own.
The tortoise should be soaked daily, not weekly.

The diet is insufficient. No tortoise likes a new food. You have to slowly introduce it in incremental amounts over a long period of time.

Betadine kills tissue and prevents healing. It is good for one time disinfection use.

This tortoise was not started properly with a brooder box set up. In time, with good care, the plastron will grow and even out.

Please read and follow these:

 

BeardooWeirdoo

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The tortoise should be soaked daily, not weekly.

The diet is insufficient. No tortoise likes a new food. You have to slowly introduce it in incremental amounts over a long period of time.

Betadine kills tissue and prevents healing. It is good for one time disinfection use.

This tortoise was not started properly with a brooder box set up. In time, with good care, the plastron will grow and even out.

Please read and follow these:

Thank you for replying and for the informational sheets. I will definitely read them and make the necessary changes. I am so relieved it’s not Septicemia.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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Thank you for replying and for the informational sheets. I will definitely read them and make the necessary changes. I am so relieved it’s not Septicemia.
The tortoise should be soaked daily, not weekly.

The diet is insufficient. No tortoise likes a new food. You have to slowly introduce it in incremental amounts over a long period of time.

Betadine kills tissue and prevents healing. It is good for one time disinfection use.

This tortoise was not started properly with a brooder box set up. In time, with good care, the plastron will grow and even out.

Please read and follow these:

@Tom I know you probably answer a gazillion posts a day, but I have a few more questions regarding my post from January 12 that you replied to. The two red spots went away for about a week, however now the bigger red spot on Mabel’s plastron is back. What exactly is this? Blood seeping through? I know you mentioned it was because she wasn’t started right as a hatchling. I’m just trying to understand what is actually happening with these spots.
 

Tom

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@Tom I know you probably answer a gazillion posts a day, but I have a few more questions regarding my post from January 12 that you replied to. The two red spots went away for about a week, however now the bigger red spot on Mabel’s plastron is back. What exactly is this? Blood seeping through? I know you mentioned it was because she wasn’t started right as a hatchling. I’m just trying to understand what is actually happening with these spots.
It looks like those are "high" spot on the plastron that are sticking out more than the rest. It appears that the high spots are rubbing on something abrasive, and the redness is irritation and possibly blood like when we get a skinned knee.

It relates to how they are started, because when they are started properly in a damp humid warm brooder box for 10 days, their plastrons are completely flat, and their umbilical scars are completely healed up and closed.

I don't think this will be a long term problem for your tortoise. As it grows, I think this problem will just go away.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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@Tom Okay, I really appreciate your quick reply. Should I be putting neosporin or anything on it, or should I just leave it be?
 

Tom

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@Tom Okay, I really appreciate your quick reply. Should I be putting neosporin or anything on it, or should I just leave it be?
Hmmm.... Tough call. Neosporin will make the substrate stick to it, but also might prevent infection. If its been this way all this time and its not infected, I would leave it alone.

More important, I think, is to find what is rubbing it raw like that and remove the source of the problem.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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@Tom Okay, as always thanks for your input/advice. I’ll have to experiment with a different bedding(s) and maybe take her basking slate away. I never see her deliberately rubbing on anything that would cause this. I’ve used Reptile Bark (which is orchid bark I believe) for my crested gecko but don’t like it. I always ended up with a wet mess under it. Instead of absorbing it for humidity, it trickles through it when misting in my experience. I know you hated the hay/orchard grass idea. I hate coco coir. Makes a mess. I’ll have to do some more research on what others are using.
 

Tom

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@Tom Okay, as always thanks for your input/advice. I’ll have to experiment with a different bedding(s) and maybe take her basking slate away. I never see her deliberately rubbing on anything that would cause this. I’ve used Reptile Bark (which is orchid bark I believe) for my crested gecko but don’t like it. I always ended up with a wet mess under it. Instead of absorbing it for humidity, it trickles through it when misting in my experience. I know you hated the hay/orchard grass idea. I hate coco coir. Makes a mess. I’ll have to do some more research on what others are using.
Misting should not be needed in a tortoise enclosure. It is simply not effective. I use orchid bark under my crested gecko and it stays relatively dry. There must be a difference in ventilation in our two enclosures, or perhaps the air in my home is much drier.

Orchid bark works best for tortoises.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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@Tom I thought I was supposed to be misting to keep humidity levels up as well as soaks? Great! Well I probably keep creating the problem then. I also mist my Russian and Red Foot. My Russian will get bubbles in his eyes so I assumed it was too dry that’s why I mist, and Red Foots are tropical that I thought lived in wetter forest areas? So no misting, just soaks for everybody? I don’t have enclosed chamber habitats that’s why I misted as well. You’re lucky with your experience with the orchid bark. I went to reptisoil under moss for my crested and that seems to work the best for me for humidity, etc…. I could put a bit of that under the orchid bark to help absorb the run off in my sulcata’s habitat, but you know that turkey is gonna eventually find that out and dig and be filthy!
 

Tom

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@Tom I thought I was supposed to be misting to keep humidity levels up as well as soaks? Great! Well I probably keep creating the problem then. I also mist my Russian and Red Foot. My Russian will get bubbles in his eyes so I assumed it was too dry that’s why I mist, and Red Foots are tropical that I thought lived in wetter forest areas? So no misting, just soaks for everybody? I don’t have enclosed chamber habitats that’s why I misted as well. You’re lucky with your experience with the orchid bark. I went to reptisoil under moss for my crested and that seems to work the best for me for humidity, etc…. I could put a bit of that under the orchid bark to help absorb the run off in my sulcata’s habitat, but you know that turkey is gonna eventually find that out and dig and be filthy!
Humidity should be kept high for a growing sulcata and for a RF, but misting should not be necessary in a closed chamber. If you are having to mist to keep humidity up, then there is too much ventilation somewhere. There is no practical way to keep humidity up in open topped enclosures, and misting doesn't work, as you are seeing. It just makes a wet mess if you do too much, or dries out in a few minutes if you do't do enough. RFs need high humidity, but relatively dry substrate, or they are prone to shell rot. This can't be done with an open top. That's like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. The heater can run all night, but your house will never get warm. Its just physics.

Adult Russians can certainly tolerate drier conditions, but temperature and humidity maintenance is much easier for them in a closed chamber too.
 

BeardooWeirdoo

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Humidity should be kept high for a growing sulcata and for a RF, but misting should not be necessary in a closed chamber. If you are having to mist to keep humidity up, then there is too much ventilation somewhere. There is no practical way to keep humidity up in open topped enclosures, and misting doesn't work, as you are seeing. It just makes a wet mess if you do too much, or dries out in a few minutes if you do't do enough. RFs need high humidity, but relatively dry substrate, or they are prone to shell rot. This can't be done with an open top. That's like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof. The heater can run all night, but your house will never get warm. Its just physics.

Adult Russians can certainly tolerate drier conditions, but temperature and humidity maintenance is much easier for them in a closed chamber too.
 
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