Help! Sick baby Sulcata

[ben32hayt]

Hi Everyone, I bought a baby sulcata tortoise from lllreptile about 5-6 weeks ago. S/he has seemed very lethargic, has little to no appetite, cannot open her eyes, and barely does anything but bask. S/he is in a 20 gallon tub with most top/planting soil which is very moist. I'm not really sure what I am doing wrong I follow Tom's thread. I supply my tortoise with a 60w heat bulb and UVB bulb. I also give daily baths and recently I have been adding Fluker's liquid vitamin but my results have not been improving. I'm really not sure what I should do before I bring her to the vet nearby. Any advice would be great -Ben

 

[ascott]

What are the day and night temps?

 

[ben32hayt]

Maybe are 90 day time temps and 75 nighttime temp

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That is what I last measured on my thermometer earlier this week

 

[Dizisdalife]

I believe that 75 is too cold for a baby on moist substrate. You should up that temp to about 85 and have a basking spot of 100. Doing barely anything but basking indicates that the baby is not warm enough. Closing the top of the tub could help contain the heat. I am curious to know if there are any signs of a URI, such as nasal discharge or labored breathing? Does he/she open its eyes while being soaked? Does he/she drink the liquid vitamins?

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

I believe the recommendation is to not go below 80 degrees in a humid closed chamber. Agree with Dizisdalife, boost up the temps and hopefully baby will improve. Keep us updated. Fingers crossed.

 

[lkwagner]

When I got one of my babies it sounded just like yours... It had a uri not sure if yours does or not without more info. But I cured it without taking it to the vet. Lots of warm soaks, some with baby food and boosted temps. Hope that helps.

 

[ben32hayt]

I believe that 75 is too cold for a baby on moist substrate. You should up that temp to about 85 and have a basking spot of 100. Doing barely anything but basking indicates that the baby is not warm enough. Closing the top of the tub could help contain the heat. I am curious to know if there are any signs of a URI, such as nasal discharge or labored breathing? Does he/she open its eyes while being soaked? Does he/she drink the liquid vitamins?

I can't tell if s/he is drinking but she is alert when being soaked in the liquid vitamin. It's doesn't seem like s/he has a URI but I will get some up close shots later do you can see her nasal passage yourself. Thanks, for the help

---

I believe the recommendation is to not go below 80 degrees in a humid closed chamber. Agree with Dizisdalife, boost up the temps and hopefully baby will improve. Keep us updated. Fingers crossed.

If I put half her tub closed and one side opened with a screen is that good? Also I have some intellitemp heat mats which I will install in her enclosure and upgrade her bulb to 100w.

---

When I got one of my babies it sounded just like yours... It had a uri not sure if yours does or not without more info. But I cured it without taking it to the vet. Lots of warm soaks, some with baby food and boosted temps. Hope that helps.

Thanks, when I go to costco I will buy some baby food!

 

[deadheadvet]

You didn't mention what you were offering for food.
Babies will usually go for chopped spring mix,romaine, Mazuri tortoise diet that has been soaked in warm water until soft.
Work on warming the tortoise up and see if it will improve. If not it may have a resp. Infection.
Lot of stress for some babies. Some adjust immediately. I find babies adjust to quicker than adults.
I have babies eat right after soaking. I keep them very warm 90-100 except at night where I drop them down to low 80's
Skip the vitamin liquid, that's a bunch of junk. Once the tortoise starts eating, you will need very little supplements. I mix in Mazuri grassland diet into their food which as all the extra nutrition they need besides their regular diet.

 

[Tom]

I like LLL. They are a good company. BUT, they are also a large company and they buy sulcata babies from many sources to meet their customers needs. Sadly, many tortoise breeders are still using the old dry methods for starting their babies. I have no way of knowing if this is the case with your baby, but read this thread and compare the "symptoms" to what you are seeing.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html

Another possibility: What sort of UV bulb are you using? The coil types can burn their eyes and cause them to just want to sit around with their eyes shut.

And I agree with what Joe said about the temps, and with what dhv (deadheadvet) said about everything.

 

[Dizisdalife]

If I put half her tub closed and one side opened with a screen is that good? Also I have some intellitemp heat mats which I will install in her enclosure and upgrade her bulb to 100w.

Before adding a lot of additional heat I suggest installing a thermostat to "dial in" the correct ambient (night time) temp regardless of the heat source. Too much heat will dehydrate your baby and make the situation much worse. You probably need to cover the entire top of the tub. Heat will escape very quickly through any opening. In this thread there are a couple of examples of how to cover the top and get heat and light in.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-82436.html

 

[Sulcata_Sandy]

I'm so sorry! Tom is correct (listen to him, he has more experience that most here, and has "done it, seen it, bought the TShirt, might even have the tattoo" in Sulcata breeding and care...which is exactly why I bought a hatchling from him when I wasn't even I the market for one!!!)

The closed chamber thread above has my ghetto [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES] automobile windshield reflector cover. I made a slit for the CHE, and traced a hole for the PowerSun 100w. I used duct tape tabs to hold it down yet make it easy for me to access baby and food.




Your baby needs critical care nursing. I have one now I got off Craigslist...not a hatchling, but a young Redfoot.
To reiterate what was mentioned above, and add a few things....(I'm a Veterinary Technician with a lot of reptile experience, and currently working with VERY experienced tortoise rehab experts to expand my knowledge...anyone else here jump in and correct me if you disagree with my recommendations)

Make sure you have your four temps (see Tom's care sheet)
Night 80
Day cool side 80, warm 90° basking 100-110°
Humidity 80%
(I was able to accomplish this with my setup pictured above)
Mist enclosure often to keep humidity up, include shell, I use hot water in sprayer
Make sure there is a shallow dish for water and self soaking
Variety of chopped greens, occasional calcium supplementation
Discontinue vitamins, may be causing more harm to kidneys and gut than you know
Baby food soaks 3 times a day for 30 minutes each. I used veggie medley. Set a timer for 10 minutes to check on him. I cover with a hand towel to 1) reduce stress and make mine feel more secure and safe, 2) holds heat in better for less stressful water changes for temp maintenance
Offer lightly soaked Mazuri, which has a trustee balance of vitamins/minerals and nutrients in lieu of vitamin supplement.

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In regards to the potential URI: many tortoises, when stressed, develop RNS (Runny Nose Syndrome) which is believed (by reptile DVMs) to be a herpes virus. (Many have it, and like humans and cold sores, it becomes symptomatic during times of stress, usually requires only supportive care, and never is completely curable, just stays in system for life).

To reduce stress for your baby, handle as little as possible, so go very very slowly when picking up, walk slowly, cover soaking dish, make more hides, increase temps/humidity, and most importantly, be patient. What takes a human 2-3 days to recover from, takes them 2-3 weeks or even MONTHS!!!

 

[ben32hayt]

You didn't mention what you were offering for food.
Babies will usually go for chopped spring mix,romaine, Mazuri tortoise diet that has been soaked in warm water until soft.
Work on warming the tortoise up and see if it will improve. If not it may have a resp. Infection.
Lot of stress for some babies. Some adjust immediately. I find babies adjust to quicker than adults.
I have babies eat right after soaking. I keep them very warm 90-100 except at night where I drop them down to low 80's
Skip the vitamin liquid, that's a bunch of junk. Once the tortoise starts eating, you will need very little supplements. I mix in Mazuri grassland diet into their food which as all the extra nutrition they need besides their regular diet.

I feed mine baby kale, romaine lettuce, hibiscus flowers, and spring mix. I have mazuri and zoo med tortoise diet but s/he won't eat it. I will try raising the temperatures to see if that helps.

---

I like LLL. They are a good company. BUT, they are also a large company and they buy sulcata babies from many sources to meet their customers needs. Sadly, many tortoise breeders are still using the old dry methods for starting their babies. I have no way of knowing if this is the case with your baby, but read this thread and compare the "symptoms" to what you are seeing.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-23493.html

Another possibility: What sort of UV bulb are you using? The coil types can burn their eyes and cause them to just want to sit around with their eyes shut.

And I agree with what Joe said about the temps, and with what dhv (deadheadvet) said about everything.

I think I use the zoo med power sun UVB light. I will take some pictures for you.

 

[ben32hayt]

Thank you everyone, my baby sulcata already seems to be getting better! I gave her the bath with gerber baby food, than remodeled her twenty gallon (temporary)tub to insulate humidity and heat, and then gave her some mixed spring greens which s/he ate! Here are some pictures I also included her UVB bulb to make sure that is suitable.

 

[deadheadvet]

Thank you everyone, my baby sulcata already seems to be getting better! I gave her the bath with gerber baby food, than remodeled her twenty gallon (temporary)tub to insulate humidity and heat, and then gave her some mixed spring greens which s/he ate! Here are some pictures I also included her UVB bulb to make sure that is suitable.

GET RID OF THAT COILED BULB BY ZOOMED!
THAT MAY BE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM.

 

[Joanne]

I use a mercury vapour bulb for UVA UVB, but you can also use strip uv lights. I bought my MVB off ebay.

I had also bought one of the coil type bulbs and it hurt my eyes, let alone the tortoises!!!

 

[ben32hayt]

Ok I will buy an MVB bulb.

 

[Tom]

In the pic of your baby his eyes look very irritated and nearly shut. Given the bulb you've been using and that pic, I'm going to guess that this is your problem, as opposed to chronic dehydration that is typical of hatchlings. THIS problem is solvable. Simply remove that bulb and see if things improve. The other problem is not solvable, so I'm glad we found a better explanation.

You've been here a long time. I'm surprised to see you using that bulb when so many of us say not to use them for this very reason. Were you absent that day?

Please keep us posted. I'm hoping for a full recovery!

 

[ben32hayt]

In the pic of your baby his eyes look very irritated and nearly shut. Given the bulb you've been using and that pic, I'm going to guess that this is your problem, as opposed to chronic dehydration that is typical of hatchlings. THIS problem is solvable. Simply remove that bulb and see if things improve. The other problem is not solvable, so I'm glad we found a better explanation.

You've been here a long time. I'm surprised to see you using that bulb when so many of us say not to use them for this very reason. Were you absent that day?

Please keep us posted. I'm hoping for a full recovery!

I usually use a tubular UVB bulb with my other tortoises but because the tub s/he is temporary I found an unopened one of the coil bulbs and figured I might use it. But I did buy an MVB bulb from amazon today and I have prime so it should be here Tuesday. Is chronic dehydration unsolvable? Thanks-Ben
P.S. S/he seems to be recovering.

 

[deadheadvet]

Dehydration can be corrected just by soaking the tortoise daily and providing water in the enclosure. It's the potential for retinal damage from the coiled bulb that is the issue. Hopefully that will resolve just by taking the bulb out. For now, just use some regular spot lites for heat until you can get some MVB bulbs or if you want to do it right T5HO Zoomed UV bulbs and fixtures. Size is dependant on your set up. 18" from the substrate.

 

[Dizisdalife]

Glad to hear that the situation has improved. Keep s/he hot, humid, and well hydrated.