Help!! skin & eye problems

[Be-Bops Mom]

Okay, so I am relatively new tortoise mom, I purchased a baby Redfoot this past summer. I did lots of research (although it seems like there's alway more to know) and I love him to pieces. Although he seems to be healthy overall (eating, alert, active) there are two problems. 1) his eyes are always a little swollen and 2) just recently I noticed what looks like some skin sloughing off, but not on the head or legs, just on that loose inner skin around the neck into the body/shell area. I am aware that both of these could be related to too much or too little Vitamin A, and I have seen a vet a few weeks ago (before the skin problem started) that though his eyes were a secondary infection due vitamin A deficiency. Since he's so small I was afraid of giving him too much vit A so I've been using a beta carotene spray, which is a safe means of administering vitamin A... or so i thought? His eyes have gotten much, although not completely, better (with the aid of an antibiotic & increased humidity), but now he has this skin issue. I'm scared to play with the vitamin A because I don't want to make the problem worse. Anyone else had these issues or know what I could try before making another vet trip? (vet's almost an hour away) Whenever something's wrong I stress so much since he's so little and vulnerable! I put everything I can think of below in case anyone can spot a mistake I'm making. Thank you for time & help!!!!

Diet - daily mixed field greens with a little squash, carrot, or cucumber; small piece of fruit in the afternoon, and some protein source at least once a week (dry cat food or meal worms). I put the beta-carotene/multi-vit spray 1-2x a week
Habitat - in a sweaterbox type rubbermaid thing (open top), with organic potting soil, live plants, sporangium moss, soaking dish, and hide.
Lighting/heating - I just put the UVB light on for a few hours 2-3 days a week because I read that redfoots don't need much light. I have a "day" heat light, and a infared "night" heat light too. The temp usually ranges from 65-85, the humidity I have trouble with (but I constantly mist it) & can usually keep at 40-60%
If any other info or picture would help anyone help me, let me know!!! Thanks all!

 

[Kymiie]

Can you post some pictures? It may give a RF owner sme advice to give you x

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

pics are tricky to see it, but I think you can see it best in the first two, the sort of brown/grey dividing line along his neck, that was previously all brown and healthy looking... now is not. poor little guy

 

[Kymiie]

My torts neck is just all of the soft grey bit, he never had the brown bit but my tort is not a RF. Im not a specialist so id wait for a RF helper to help you out..is he healthy and eating and walking active etc?
Im no vet but id say it was prob a lack of calcium does your tort have calcium powders or cuttle bone?xxx

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

he had a cuttle bone but he never touched it. The vitamin spray I use has some calcium in it, but on a second examination it's pretty low on the ingredient list, so maybe I will get a better calcium source. Anyone with particular brand suggestions for a good calcium supplement or are they all similar?

And also yes he's active & eating well... maybe just shedding? Do tortoises even shed like that?

Thanks for help!

 

[Kymiie]

Yes they shred skin, but not like snakes. When crush shredded skin all around his neck it was the ;ack of calcium as i only used it once a week but now i use it everyday and hey presto...no shred since.
Doesnt sound too bad to me if he is healthy eating and running about etc..
(everything I say... I am reffering back to info I was given, so I may not be 100%) Suprised nobody with a RF has sppoken to you yet as many poeple on TFO have RF or CH.

SOMEONE WITH MORE EXPERIANCE SHOULD BE ALONG SHORTLY!!

xxxxx XD xxxxx

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

Well that makes me feel a little bit better, I'll get on the extra Calcium. Thanks for taking the time to reply Kymiie!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi "Mom":

The symptoms you've described can be attributed to several different things. We wouldn't be able to help you diagnose online. But we can offer some, hopefully, helpful hints:

Too much vitamin A causes skin to slough off. That might or might NOT be what's happening around Be Bop's neck. It is quite common for neck skin to peel, but that's usually on desert-type tortoises.

Puffy eyes might be due to a lack of vit.A, but usually in a redfoot its because the humidity factor is too low, or not right. Its very easy to get Vit.a into a tortoise. Just feed them on red/orange/yellow fruits and veggies. Its much better to give them vit.A enriched foods rather than a supplement, injection or spray.

Puffy eyes also might be due to an allergy in the habitat...too dry...too wet.

Here's a good website for a care sheet:

http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

and if you can find Mike Pingleton's book, he has written a couple redfoot books.

Yvonne

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

Thanks Yvonne!
I think I am going to make a second vet appt just to be safe, especially where he's still acting healthy I'd rather deal with non-emergency situations! Also I think you're right about the humidity playing a part in all this and I am perpetually fighting with it. How can you keep it up without covering the enclosure?I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING.... I mist about 10 times a day, I have a moss floor cover, I even bought a warm air humidifier for my room (which makes my room unbearable for me hahaha... sacrifices for the baby). I guess I just live in a really dry climate cause with all that it still typically never reads higher than 60%, dropping down to about 40% while I'm gone during the day and then I mist the crap out of it again... should I try a partial cover or something?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Yes, you can use a partial cover, get an auto mister, etc. Where are you measuring humidity? Is it a gauge mounted on the side of the enclosure, or a probe going into the substrate? You want the substrate humidity, not ambient/room humidity reading. Also, can you elaborate on the temperatures? Is the range you gave the day range, total, etc? It would help if you said X-X during the day, X-X during the night, this time of year. Hope you find some answers soon. So glad to hear you are taking this seriously and going back to the vet. Do be careful; I have heard to never to allow a Vitamin A injection. Best wishes.

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

Humidity is a mount on the side of the enclosure, but I place it at the substrate level. Temperature is pretty much the same at night & during the day because I have a night heat source. Should I turn it off and let it be cooler at night because that's how it would be naturally? (I never even though of that!) I have the thermometer right in the middle of the enclosure (with one side having the heat emitter & the other not) and it usually reads between 70 and 75 so I am inferring a low of 65 and high of 80... I should probably get two sets to be more exact!

 

[K9KidsLove]

Hi...What are you using for UVB? Some bulbs have a history of causing eye problems as well as health problems, including lack of appetite & being lethargic. How often do you soak him/her?
I agree with Kate...don't allow any Vit A injections...it is very easy to overdose. It is much safer to add natural foods with vit A.
Good luck
Patsy

 

[Be-Bops Mom]

I dont' actually know what kind because I threw the box away long ago, but like I only put it on for a few hours 2-3 times a week & it never seems to bother him, but I will certainly look into it more!

Also, just to update, he had his vet appt last night. The vet said his eyes look like they are improving, and that the skin doesn't look like hypo-vit A, he said in his opinion the "new skin" (grey looking stuff) underneath looks healthy to him & he thinks he might just be maturing.... So for now just keep doing what I'm doing & keep and eye on it to make sure nothing unhealthly looking pops up. On a different note he had worms, mites, and a tick. EWW. So he was wormed.... which he seriously did not like... poor little guy. And the tick was pulled off. Luckily the mites he said were benign and probably not particularly bothering him. And he put on 4 grams of weight since his last visit. Good considering he only weighed 32 grams to start!
Thanks for everyone's help =)

 

[llamas55]

Worming: I've been wondering about worming. Do people or not, or do you just with a fecal exam? My hens and goats and dogs are wormed routinely no matter what. What about torts? Ivermectin or?

 

[Yvonne G]

Worming: I've been wondering about worming. Do people or not, or do you just with a fecal exam? My hens and goats and dogs are wormed routinely no matter what. What about torts? Ivermectin or?

NO DO NOT EVER USE IVERMECTIN ON A TURTLE OR TORTOISE!!!!! It will kill them.

Yvonne

 

[Madkins007]

Worming: I've been wondering about worming. Do people or not, or do you just with a fecal exam? My hens and goats and dogs are wormed routinely no matter what. What about torts? Ivermectin or?

Worming meds are basically strong poisons designed to just barely not kill the host while killing the worms and parasites. It is not recommended that you use them unless you need to, and if you use them, make sure you use the right meds at the right doses.

---

Okay, so I am relatively new tortoise mom, I purchased a baby Redfoot this past summer. I did lots of research (although it seems like there's alway more to know) and I love him to pieces. Although he seems to be healthy overall (eating, alert, active) there are two problems. 1) his eyes are always a little swollen and 2) just recently I noticed what looks like some skin sloughing off, but not on the head or legs, just on that loose inner skin around the neck into the body/shell area. I am aware that both of these could be related to too much or too little Vitamin A, and I have seen a vet a few weeks ago (before the skin problem started) that though his eyes were a secondary infection due vitamin A deficiency. Since he's so small I was afraid of giving him too much vit A so I've been using a beta carotene spray, which is a safe means of administering vitamin A... or so i thought? His eyes have gotten much, although not completely, better (with the aid of an antibiotic & increased humidity), but now he has this skin issue. I'm scared to play with the vitamin A because I don't want to make the problem worse. Anyone else had these issues or know what I could try before making another vet trip? (vet's almost an hour away) Whenever something's wrong I stress so much since he's so little and vulnerable! I put everything I can think of below in case anyone can spot a mistake I'm making. Thank you for time & help!!!!

Diet - daily mixed field greens with a little squash, carrot, or cucumber; small piece of fruit in the afternoon, and some protein source at least once a week (dry cat food or meal worms). I put the beta-carotene/multi-vit spray 1-2x a week
Habitat - in a sweaterbox type rubbermaid thing (open top), with organic potting soil, live plants, sporangium moss, soaking dish, and hide.
Lighting/heating - I just put the UVB light on for a few hours 2-3 days a week because I read that redfoots don't need much light. I have a "day" heat light, and a infared "night" heat light too. The temp usually ranges from 65-85, the humidity I have trouble with (but I constantly mist it) & can usually keep at 40-60%
If any other info or picture would help anyone help me, let me know!!! Thanks all!

(I apologize for chiming in late- for some reason, this thread did not show up as a new one for me.)

If I was grading your cares, I would give you an overall grade of a C to C+, with bonus points for effort.

Diet- sounds like it could be too much food, and a lot of fruit and protein. Without getting into too many details, give TurtleTary's diet a try (www.redfoots.com).

Heat- get the hot temps up to about 88, maybe even 90 in the hottest place. Lows can be in the 70's, but in a smaller habitat they will generally be in the low 80s. Because of the light involved, I am not a fan of heat lamps, preferring ceramic emitters instead. If the room it is in is cool, you may want to think about some gentle heat under the tub as well, like a 'seed starting warming mat' to keep the soil from getting cool and clammy.

Humidity- this can be a problem, and has been discussed a lot. You have a lot of options, but really need to get it up there. Boosting the temps can actually help with this by moving more stored moisture out of the soil.

.....................
As far as the medical issues, understand I AM NOT A VET, but- the photos do not show what I would call swollen eyes. Vit. A eyes look very swollen and look painful.

SOME skin loss is not a big deal as long as the skin under it looks healthy. This can be many things- but I would almost bet that in your case it is mild stress due to growth (sweet meals with a lot of protein), and temps/humidity.

Cut back on the high vitamin A stuff though- too much can be just as dangerous as too little, and they generally get plenty in the diet.

If I had to put a name to the medical conditions I see, it would be 'Concerned Tortoise Mommy Syndrome'. This is the equivalent of the mom who calls the doctor when her first child coughs in the middle of the night.

Feel free to post any questions and photos when you are concerned. We are not always right, but we do care and will try. (And hopefully next time it will get more keepers attention quicker for ya!)

 

[tortoisenerd]

I also agree with worms (and all parasites) to get fecal tests done regularly and only treat what is there. My tort too had a very tough time with the worming meds. He had three days of meds, two week break, than another three days. For about a week each time he was mopey, inactive, sleepy, and not very hungry. I assume a tummy ache. Panacur paste is a typical med for torts, but again I do not think you should administer it yourself and instead get fecal tests done. There is another type of medication that is a one dose medication given at the vets instead of thee (both have a follow up dose in about 10-14 days to catch the adult worms that hatched from the eggs, as the medication only works on adult worms). My vet recommends once when you get the tort, 2-3 months later (to catch the parasites that may have had a lull in their numbers), and then yearly after that. The time of year would be before hibernation if your tortoise does that.

Do you weigh the tort at home? I recommend to get a postal or food scale and do weight and SCL weekly. This is a great indicator of growth patterns and general health. Many tort illnesses involve weight loss or slower weight gain.

Glad the vet went well!

Yes, you should have a lower night temperature to simulate the wild. Someone with a Redfoot can give you specifics though. Or, look up the night temperature in the region your tort is from, lol (same goes for the day temperatures).

 

[Madkins007]

Night temp drops with Red-foots do not seem to be a big issue. The night drops in most of their equatorial range are minimal (5 degrees with increased humidity to boot), although they are much more in the Cherryhead and Gran Chaco ranges.

Turning off your 'hot spot' heater is usually enough, as long as the overall temps stay in the mid 80's or so.