help - what is this shell condition?

[shidiwen]

hi everyone,

i hope this is the right spot within the forum to post this.
we got our elongated male a female buddy a couple of days ago and she is showing a shell coloration that makes me nervous. her shell is a little bit red, almost like blood vessels shining through the upper layers of the shell.

please take a look:

i first noticed it yesterday cleaning / redoing the enclosure we keep them in.

she seems perfectly fine in her behavior, she's still a bit shy and easily scared but she eats and drinks, is very active, crawls around, explored the enclosure and of course - tries to get out

i researched for it online but couldn't find anything...

has anyone of you seen this before? what is it? what am i supposed to do about it?

thanks a lot everyone! your comments are VERY MUCH appreciated since this is making me very nervous

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Stefen:

Sometimes the red that you're seeing is because of septicemia...but it usually is first seen on the plastron.

I'm pretty sure that your tortoise is just showing signs of new growth, and is probably nothing to worry about.

 

[Laura]

post a pic of the underside too..

are they already housed together? or do you have the new one in Quaratine?

 

[tortoises101]

Septicemia can also be shown when the skin looks reddish/pinkish. But yes, do show us some more pics of plastron, skin, etc. Keep us posted.

 

[shidiwen]

hi everyone,

thanks for the advice and feedback - skin and plastron look perfectly normal and they don't show that red-ish coloration or any other abnormal condition. we got the tortoise from very good sources so we are keeping them together already and she's actually fine, just eating a bit less then the others and kinda shy, easily scared, but very active. the shell condition is unchanged, didn't fade or get stronger.

 

[HLogic]

I would keep a close eye on that. It doesn't seem quite right to me. I checked my juveniles and none of them show anything similar. I also suggest housing the elongates on a more humid substrate if the pictures in your flickr album reflect their current environment.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

We have seen several cases of septicemia. Always in the skin.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Agree that it doesn't look like septicemia due to the locations...the first time I saw this on my tort it scared me too! I posted here and was also told it was normal. My tort still has the red bits at the growth areas (he's 2.5 years), especially at the "love handles". Here's a photo of septicemia: http://www.chelonia.org/articles/galby1.htm

 

[shidiwen]

thanks for the feedback everyone, those torts were kept on that kinda pellets before and so we continued it and actually let the retailers talk us into buying A LOT of those pellets. we are now using them up and with the new enclosure already started providing the humid area (moss/torf). they seem to prefer the pellet substrate they are used to, we mist and soak them daily and we hope to get them to become comfy on the more humid substrate.

any ideas on how to actually make that more attractive for them? our enclosure can be seen here:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Elongated-Enclosure

we are keeping an eye on our new lady for sure and we hope she will soon learn that there is no need to be that shy... we soak and feed her as we do with the others - do you recommend any special treatment?

thanks again

 

[Benjamin]

Looks to me like bruising. Elongata can be very agressive towards each other. The area affected is the area that would be rammed by a courting male. Do you hear loud crashing sounds from the turtles?
Seperate them, give things a chance to heal.

 

[Edna]

thanks for the feedback everyone, those torts were kept on that kinda pellets before and so we continued it and actually let the retailers talk us into buying A LOT of those pellets. we are now using them up and with the new enclosure already started providing the humid area (moss/torf). they seem to prefer the pellet substrate they are used to, we mist and soak them daily and we hope to get them to become comfy on the more humid substrate.

any ideas on how to actually make that more attractive for them? our enclosure can be seen here:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Elongated-Enclosure

we are keeping an eye on our new lady for sure and we hope she will soon learn that there is no need to be that shy... we soak and feed her as we do with the others - do you recommend any special treatment?

thanks again

That is a good-sized enclosure! To introduce something new, sometimes you just have to quit offering them a choice. Suggestion: replace all of the pellets with coir or soil or mulch, or a combination. Add a bunch of plants in their pots (most of our houseplants don't need to be by a window). Add some nice rocks with varied textures and seat these in the substrate so when the torts walk around they get to step on some different surfaces. I picked up a bag of smooth black (LARGE) river rocks for $1 at the dollar store and placed them near the basking area. They get very warm and my torts seem to spend a lot of time on them.

 

[shidiwen]

never thought of that - we don't hear any noises from them and the other elongated is actually a very quiet one. the new lady (that shows the coloration) is super active though, especially during the first days we had her, she tried climbing out of the enclosures a lot, she fell on the back of her shell too and she was actually being kept in a big group (with her being one of the smallest) in the shop where we got her - could it be that this coloration takes a couple of days to show? that would make sense with the crowded enclosure from the show where she got a good deal of bumps for sure!

thanks you again for this input!

---

great ideas edna - thanks for the inspiration! we were planning to add plants already and some stones to reflect the basking lamp's heat is a great idea for sure - we have a lot of them from our water turtles anyway
thanks a lot!

 

[HLogic]

I do not believe that to be bruising. You can see the vascularization in those areas with no evidence of petichiae or hematoma. It may well be growth but I didn't and still don't see it in my juvies which are growing at a rather rapid rate.

A humid and heavily planted enclosure is the best environment for all members of the Indotestudo genus. They are forest tortoises which prefer considerable shade, higher humidity and secure hiding places.

When trying to provide an environment for any specimen, try to consider the habitat from which they originate. Remember the vendor's job is to sell their inventory not necessarily replicate the environment best-suited for the specimen. Continue the spraying/misting. Rain, real or artificial, tends to elicit activity.

To entice them to move/stay in the more humid area, try moving the hides to that side. You can place moistened long fiber moss, the kind used to top off potted plants, or loose leaf litter in the hides. You might also try putting the moss/leaf litter in a suitably sized plastic box with an entry cut in the side. This will tend to hold the humidity better and provide a medium into which they can 'burrow' and conceal themselves.
It may be difficult to maintain the needed humidity levels throughout the enclosure but you can provide areas of elevated humidity in which they can spend the majority of their time using these methods.

Your torts appear to be relatively young juveniles in the 15 - 18 cm (6 - 7 in) range. I would not expect much in the way of aggressive behavior for another year or two when they are closer to sexual maturity. Usually, that behaviour only persists during the breeding season with I. elongata.

 

[Yvonne G]

Those new growth areas are pretty tender. It could be bruising. Makes sense to me. Can you keep this tortoise separate from the others for a while?

 

[shidiwen]

hey guys, looks like our baby is getting better! the red marks are becoming less and less and she's also less shy. she has picked a favorite hiding spot where she spends most of the time now and she still eats very little, but the shell condition looks way better. hope she stays on this course!

thanks again everyone for your opinions and ideas!

 

[tortoises101]

hey guys, looks like our baby is getting better! the red marks are becoming less and less and she's also less shy. she has picked a favorite hiding spot where she spends most of the time now and she still eats very little, but the shell condition looks way better. hope she stays on this course!

thanks again everyone for your opinions and ideas!

Glad to hear on the update.