"Herbal Hay"

bettinge

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Yvonne G said:
I received a free sample, tried it on all my tortoises, and gave the rest of the bag to Will. I sprinkled it over the tortoises' food and none of my tortoises ate that day.

Are you saying none of your tortoises would touch it?

What kind of tort is Will? Did he like it? Did you give it to him straight or mixed with other greens or Mazuri?
 

Tom

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mike taylor said:
Well yeah ! 25 dollars for 1pound thats crazy. Is it made from a golden rose bush wow . Thats higher than giraffe booty!!!!!!!!!

"Crazy"?

Let's break this down. I'm feeding this to 20 russian babies two or three times a week. Been doing that about two months. So in 8 weeks I've used about $8 worth. That's about $1 worth a week, or roughly .33 cents per feeding. So for .33 cents my 20 Russians are getting somewhere around two dozen different types of weeds flowers and dried up goodness, which more closely simulates what they would eat in the wild. Let's see now... .33 cents per feeding, divided by 20 tortoises equals... 0.0165 cents per tortoise per feeding. Now THAT'S crazy! Crazy CHEAP! Only 1.6 PENNIES per feeding for all that variety and goodness in their diet. I spend more than that on a half hour of electricity out of their 45 watt basking flood bulbs.

So Mike... Mr. Taylor... If you can't swing the $24, just shut the light on one of your enclosures off one half hour early every day, and you will have lots and lots of pennies left over even AFTER buying this excellent food.



Now I've been a giraffe trainer for nearly 20 years, but I have no idea what "giraffe booty" is. Can you explain that one for me please. :)


bettinge said:
Yvonne G said:
I received a free sample, tried it on all my tortoises, and gave the rest of the bag to Will. I sprinkled it over the tortoises' food and none of my tortoises ate that day.

Are you saying none of your tortoises would touch it?

What kind of tort is Will? Did he like it? Did you give it to him straight or mixed with other greens or Mazuri?

Will is her "tortoise partner". That's his user name on the forum here too. He keeps a variety of species, and has a TREMENDOUS amount of tortoise experience. I've met him a few times and I think I can safely call him "friend" now.
 

bettinge

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Sorry, I have not taken the time to go thru the check out. Is it $25 shipped?

Tom, think Booty call. What do you get on a Booty call? The Giraffe's booty is very high of the ground. Quite funny I think!
 

Yvonne G

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bettinge said:
Yvonne G said:
I received a free sample, tried it on all my tortoises, and gave the rest of the bag to Will. I sprinkled it over the tortoises' food and none of my tortoises ate that day.

Are you saying none of your tortoises would touch it?

What kind of tort is Will? Did he like it? Did you give it to him straight or mixed with other greens or Mazuri?

None of my tortoises would eat their regular food when they got a whiff of the herbal hay. And "Will" is my tortoise partner who lives in San Diego. I don't know if his tortoises ate it or not.
 

mike taylor

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Re: RE: "Herbal Hay"

bettinge said:
Sorry, I have not taken the time to go thru the check out. Is it $25 shipped?

Tom, think Booty call. What do you get on a Booty call? The Giraffe's booty is very high of the ground. Quite funny I think!

You hit the nail on the head . Mr. Tom I have three red foots and two sulcatas how long do you think one pound would last? I also have weeds and grass I mow and bail . So free is for me .:D I do like the way you broke it down . I may have to buy some and check it out . Giraffe booty is high off the ground, one of the animals you would not walk behind due to getting kicked or pooped on . Ha ha :D:D:D:D:D:D
 

Tom

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mike taylor said:
bettinge said:
Sorry, I have not taken the time to go thru the check out. Is it $25 shipped?

Tom, think Booty call. What do you get on a Booty call? The Giraffe's booty is very high of the ground. Quite funny I think!

You hit the nail on the head . Mr. Tom I have three red foots and two sulcatas how long do you think one pound would last? I also have weeds and grass I mow and bail . So free is for me.

No idea. It would just depend on how much you used and how often. I don't think someone with year round access to weeds and grass really needs this. I don't think larger sulcatas that will eat grass hay really need it either. This is a good way to improve the diet of those tortoises that are indoors all winter in snowy areas and stuck eating mostly grocery store greens. Think of someone with a single russian or a leopard in say Vermont, or something. This product would be a great way to add some fiber and variety. It could certainly be fed to a 100 pound sulcata in a basement somewhere in snow country, but grass hay seems more practical for that application.
 

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bettinge said:
Yvonne, are you now buying this product for your herd?

No,I guess my reply was a bit confusing. I made up the regular meal, then sprinkled a bit of the herbal hay over it. Once they got a whiff of the herbal hay, they wouldn't eat. They didn't even pick through the pile to get at the good stuff under the hay. They just turned up their noses at it and walked away.
 

Tom

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Yvonne G said:
I received a free sample, tried it on all my tortoises, and gave the rest of the bag to Will. I sprinkled it over the tortoises' food and none of my tortoises ate that day.

How many of your tortoises will eat a brand new and totally different food the first time you try it? None of mine will. If people took their spring mix raised sulcatas and one day dropped a pile of chopped yard grass on the plate instead, what percentage of those tortoises would just eat it all up on day one. I bet very few. Like any other food, this one must be introduced gradually and persistently. The first few times I gave it my russians, they ate around it too, and left the crumbs at the bottom. After just a few more introductions, they got used to it and seem to start liking it. They leave no crumbs any more.

You know this. Tortoises are creatures of habit. Why did you give up after only a single attempt? I wouldn't expect ANY tortoise to eat it the very first day it sees this new and novel food.
 

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Thanks for the "review" Tom. I appreciate it. I am going to try it.

Always trying to improve my tort keeping conditions.
 

TylerStewart

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Thanks for the review, Tom! Like was said, almost all foods take a transition period to get them on to it. I still can't get my tortoises to chow down on the ZooMed diets, but I don't doubt that they're good diets because of that. The intent here was for variety for the many many tortoises that don't have access to a backyard full of weeds. We grow a lot of our own weeds also, but I don't grow them fast enough to keep up with my needs, so we use this to complete my intended variety in their diets, as a supplemental feeding item on top of commercially grown greens and other food items. To try it once or twice and give up was nowhere near giving the product a fair shot. Many people use it and love it, and regardless of a tortoise chowing down (or not) on the first attempt, it's a huge "positive" in a tortoise's diet.
 

bettinge

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Tyler, I really like the fact that your finding new products that fill a niche in the market that seems unfilled so far. I've tried filling it by picking weeds in the fall and drying them to mix with Mazuri and ZooMed diet all winter. It's odd, my torts pick out the dried (slightly rehydrated) greens from the Mazuri, when they don't really have a desire for them on their own. Perhaps they crave the color or consistency of what they would eat naturally.

I've actually started thinking Mazuri and Zoo Med diet are better than store greens in the winter. I never use store greens when the torts are out side all summer. I believe store greens are grown in VERY nutrient rich soil, and have little fiber- not at all what they find naturally in their home environment. I. Suspect (hope) your product is not grown fast in these ultra rich and fertilized soils.

I also find Toms and Yvonne's recommendations extremely valuable. I have to dig a bit deeper when reviews are written by anyone who got a free sample, seems a bit of a conflict of interest. Not to say that I don't respect it, I just need to do my home work. From Toms prospective the product is extremely inexpensive because his torts love it. From Yvonne's point of view it's extremely expensive as it all goes to waste. My take is its a risky buy, but I WILL get some to form my own opinion (assuming shipping costs are reasonable). I hope this thread will be kept open so I can add my unbiased opinion in the future!

Tyler, how much is shipping and handling for a pound (NY address).

Are all ingredients added in equal weights?

Since its dried, is its shelf life indefinite?

Will you seek a formal nutritional review?

It would be nice if the top five ingredients were made known, but I don't blame you for not doing so.

Scott
 

TylerStewart

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I understand your questioning of reviews from people that got free samples, but I didn't pick and send samples to people that I knew would give me favorable reviews. I have no reason to think Yvonne likes me at all LOL. Additionally, the people that got free samples aren't able to leave a review on my site; you have to order it thru the site to be able to review it there. Most of the positive feedback in public and in private that I've got wasn't from people that got free samples, but was from people that got on the site and ordered it. It's not going to work if you expect your tortoises to eat it eagerly on day one and not give it a transition period, or attempt to wean them on to it, like any other food generally needs. It has a strong odor, a good odor, but it probably is pretty intense for the tortoises at first. The free samples were sent to probably 15 people, almost all of which were "major tortoise people" prior to me offering it for sale in an attempt to get their feedback on it in case it needed any changes. One of the 15 said he didn't really care for it, and now it appears Yvonne is number two (I didn't know this prior to this thread). Her partner was number one (he had his own sample sent to him at the same time). The other 13 or so are enjoying it and as far as I know, still using it, and many have re-ordered it. There's another reptile market that has taken to it, and uses it more than tortoise people now, as well as some rodent groups (guinea pigs, rabbits, etc).

We do not use the same weight for all ingredients, as that could or would drive the price way up. We use honeysuckle flowers, for example, which my cost is around $50 for a pound of them. Many other ingredients are similarly expensive, and while I do appreciate all the fancy ingredients, I didn't want to make my product $40 a pound or $30 a pound, so I had to keep things within reason. The most expensive aspects of it are admittedly a smaller percentage of the total weight. Other more common ingredients like dandelion is much cheaper per pound. There's no ingredient that makes up more than about 6-7% or so of the complete mix by weight or by volume, so there's not really a "filler" if that's what you're asking.

Shipping for a single pound or two would probably be between about $9 and $13, depending on where you live (West coast cheaper). We tie to FedEx for our shipping rates, and our shipping discount is applied to all orders, but FedEx has never been an efficient way to ship a 1 or 2 pound shipment. You could probably ship 4-5-6 pounds for only a few dollars more. Additionally, the shipping weight on a single pound of this mix is somewhere around 1 pound 8 ounces once you add the box, but the size of it makes it hit 3 pounds for dimensional weight, so it's probably calculating a 3 pound box.

It all ships from zip code 89032, if you want to calculate shipping via FedEx.com, or you can plug it in on my site and while viewing your cart click "estimate shipping" and it will quote you. All things being equal, my site's shipping will be cheaper than FedEx.com.

Shelf life is indefinite. I have no reason to think it would be any less potent 3 years down the road than it is initially.

We've been taking smaller bags to shows selling them much cheaper as more of a trial size. A pound is a ton of food, as Tom said, and would last a very long time. Photo below is a baby sulcata with just 2 ounces, so you can imagine the quantity of 16 ounces. For $25, it's not expensive for what you get. This isn't timothy hay, and the ingredients are not cheap.

HerbalHay2__40557.1378990475.1280.1280.JPG
 

bettinge

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I just ordered a pound! It was $35.90 delivered to NY, in case anyone is interested.

Thanks Tyler! I hope I didn't make you feel as though you needed to defend your product. As I said, I think you fill a need, and I believe that you have done your homework for the ingredients.

I've been drying weeds, and still will, to round out their winter diet. I believe your product will enhance what I'm already doing.

Don't worry, I won't pass judgement should they not love it the first day/week, etc.
 

Sulcata_Sandy

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Good thread! And great product, Tyler! I just ordered 2 lbs. between my own pets and my fosters, I need all the help I can get in Oregon. Sounds like an easy solution to a complicated problem in a cold climate (plus busy schedule).
 

Tom

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Cowboy_Ken said:
Sandy says this in that she is unwilling to dig up her yard like I am.

You and your shovels full of dirt and weeds... Your sulcatas will never know hunger... :p
 

AnnV

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Couldn't this be shipped US mail. Dont they have the envelopes that ship out for one price no matter weight. Boxes too. For something like $5.
 

TylerStewart

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AnnV said:
Couldn't this be shipped US mail. Dont they have the envelopes that ship out for one price no matter weight. Boxes too. For something like $5.

It wouldn't fit in a flat rate envelope, it's much too large. The medium flat rate box is something like $10.50 if I remember right, and the USPS site and software are a nightmare to use, the tracking sucks, they lost about 10% of my shipments when I was using them; I'm just over it. We recently shipped a box to Germany as a favor to someone, the box was missing for 6 weeks and eventually was returned to us, no explanation, no nothing, and we had spent almost $100 to ship it. USPS never had a record of it being in their system at all, even though they had it 6 weeks and took our money to print the label. It was weird, and won't happen again.

To add USPS to my website as a shipping option just complicates further something that wouldn't really save any money (people overwhelmed with shipping options, and people trying to ship tortoises in USPS flat rate boxes, etc). The smallest items like most books, terramycin and a few other things we ship for $1.95 which is normal USPS postage (I just use a $2 stamp, so I don't have to use their software).

All your orders are packed and leave in the morning. Thanks!
 
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