Hermann Under Stress

[Kirstie]

Baby Hermann

Hello all,

This is my first time on a tortoise forum, here goes!

I bought a 12 week old Hermann last week who I named Diego, he is a friend to my 1 year old Hermann named Consuela.

Up until yesterday they were getting on really well, they were playing nicely together apart from Consuela standing on Diego a lot! But yesterday Consuela started ramming Diego & now 'he' seems a bit timid & hasn't come out of his house. Is this normal? Will Consuela stop ramming him?

If anyone has any thoughts please let me know. I'd be interested to see what you think & chat to other tortoise owners.

Thank you!

I might have attached a picture of my lovely tortoises below but not sure if it worked!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

RE: Baby Hermann

Couple possibilities:

(a) terrirorial attitude...she considers him to be an interloper.

{b) Consuela is really a Carl and he wants to be the "alpha"...male tortoises are just like that.

Best to seperate them, or Diego may soon die from stress.

Welcome to our little slice o' heaven, btw.

 

[Kirstie]

RE: Baby Hermann

Is that really possible that he could die from stress? I hope not 

He seems a bit better this afternoon, he's wandering about & eating loads; I've been keeping a close eye on them & I haven't seen Consuela ram him, hopefully she won't.

They are amazing pets, couldn't imagine not having them now! 

 

[tyler0912]

RE: Baby Hermann

Agree with the above post and a little constructive criticism....
Can i request that you remove the sand as it can irritate the eyes and cause impaction and kill your tort....i reccomend coco coir or a topsoil (no pesticides) !
And a feeding dish......as the substrate will get on there food and they will eat it and again! impaction....or a piece of slate for the same reason and it will keep the beak trimmed.....even a botterlid will do!
I hope this does not sound harsh i dont' intend on making it sound harsh!
Oh yeh..
Welcome to TFO enjoy your stay!

 

[Kirstie]

RE: Baby Hermann

I do have feeding dishes, that leaf was dragged by Consuela & then Diego started eating it with her.

The sand is a temporary measure, I know that's not good but I just need to wait until payday to get more coconut fibre. I'm hoping a week won't hurt them but I won't be using it again.

Thank you for your help 

 

[mel262011]

RE: Baby Hermann

I agree with above statements. I have my baby RF in a different enclosure then my 2 yr old RF. Also, I would seperate them for the sake of the baby hermann because it WILL die from stress if left in the same area with a bigger hermanns.

 

[Utah Lynn]

RE: Baby Hermann

Welcome Kirstie. I have the same situation with my RT's. I keep them separated. Good Luck.

 

[drgnfly2265]

RE: Baby Hermann

Looks like Consuela wants to be dominate little Diego. Sounds like seperating is the answer.

 

[GBtortoises]

RE: Baby Hermann

Based on the photos there seems to be quite a difference in size between the two which is usually not healthy for the smaller tortoise. It would be best to keep them apart until they are simliar in size. The smaller one will have a very difficult time competing for food, basking spots and other resources. And as everyone else stated above stress could be a major factor.

 

[Kirstie]

RE: Baby Hermann

Oh no I'd hate for him to die. They have been getting on really well today, played about together & not much climbing on Diego.

I have only had Consuela for 4 months, I was hoping that such a short space of time would make her not too domineering as she hasn't been on her own for long.

Thank you for the advice 

 

[Kirstie]

RE: Baby Hermann

What is a good way to tell if a tortoise is stressed? Diego is asleep now but he has been active all day & has eaten & drank; he doesn't seem stressed but I'm a bit concerned now.

Different bedding will be used & sand won't be used again.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Torty Mom]

RE: Baby Hermann

Welcome to TFO! Your torties are very cute! How are they getting along now, any better?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

RE: Baby Hermann

What is a good way to tell if a tortoise is stressed? Diego is asleep now but he has been active all day & has eaten & drank; he doesn't seem stressed but I'm a bit concerned now.

If the tortoise sleeps a lot all of a sudden and simultaneously eats less, that's a very bad sign. A substancially larger tort, as Consuela is to Diego, will often bully the smaller one.

Different bedding will be used & sand won't be used again.

Good...that'll vastly improve their chances at a long life!

Thank you for your help.

We're all here to help one another...we all once were "newbies", as you are now, and, in time, you'll be able to help other "newbies"!

And sometimes you "newbies" teach us geezer-oids useful stuff, as well!

We're like a big goofy family!

 

[lynnedit]

RE: Baby Hermann

Let us know how they are doing! There is a very good chance they will need to be separated, just based on size. Any ramming at all will stress Diego out. Torts generally live yards or more apart in the wild, so out indoor enclosures at a pretty tight space.
For substrate, you can even use Topsoil (no additives, organic), which isn't too pricey.
Good luck!

 

[Kirstie]

RE: Baby Hermann

Thank you so much for your advice, it's really appreciated.

They are getting on really well together again today, they have basked laying next to each other, both eaten & wandered about & there has been no ramming.

Diego has been active all day from when the timer on the light turns on until about 6ish every day; I think this is normal as he is so small but what do you think?

Consuela usually starts to sleep just before the light goes off but is sometimes still awake then & I find her burrowed in very strange places in the mornings!

Is stress a factor with Consuela too? She hasn't acted any different since Diegos arrival, still eating, drinking & sleeping as normal.

I have been looking closely at photos of Consuelas shell from when I got her in May; it seems to me that she has grown but in terms of it having signs of growing like a pyramid it hasn't changed much, I hope she's ok.

Thank you for any more thoughts, I'd like to hear them!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

RE: Baby Hermann

Thank you so much for your advice, it's really appreciated.

They are getting on really well together again today, they have basked laying next to each other, both eaten & wandered about & there has been no ramming.

Diego has been active all day from when the timer on the light turns on until about 6ish every day; I think this is normal as he is so small but what do you think?

Consuela usually starts to sleep just before the light goes off but is sometimes still awake then & I find her burrowed in very strange places in the mornings!

Is stress a factor with Consuela too? She hasn't acted any different since Diegos arrival, still eating, drinking & sleeping as normal.

I have been looking closely at photos of Consuelas shell from when I got her in May; it seems to me that she has grown but in terms of it having signs of growing like a pyramid it hasn't changed much, I hope she's ok.

Thank you for any more thoughts, I'd like to hear them!

Measure/weigh them monthly...you'll be amazed at what you'll see.

 

[Kirstie]

Evening,

How can I tell if either of my Hermann tortoises are stressed?

Consuela is 1 year old & Diego is 12 weeks.

Both are eating & drinking well, both sleeping as they should and apart from a small amount of ramming from Consuela on Friday & her standing on Diego they seem to be getting on well & have played & basked together nicely.

I bought Consuela in May & introduced Diego to her house last Saturday. A carpenter I know is building me a new house, I am designing it myself & coming up with a way of having a 'wall' I can place in there if need be, but until this has been built (which won't take long) I need to know that neither of them are in any way stressed.

Please give me all the advice you have!

Thank you.

Ps, I got my credit card out last night & bought coconut fibre to replace the sand which should be delivered on Tuesday. Where my tortoises are concerned I will find the money from somewhere to get them everything they need!

 

[lynnedit]

If they are both walking/basking/eating, then they are doing OK. I am glad you are planning ahead to be able to separate them in future if needed, as the situation could change again when Diego matures. I think the main sign of stress is when one tort burrows and hides all of the time. Of course, if you see constant harassment, you don't wait for that.
Sounds like you are monitoring the situation well.
Overall, it is harder to house torts in tort tables together compared to outside, especially if the outside enclosure is quite large with more room to move around w/o running into each other. Even then, you have to monitor.
Coir is great, it holds moisture well, they will love it. Hydrate it in a bucket per directions, squeeze the excess water out and use it. You can add water to keep the lower layers moist as needed.
Pics of your new table when it is done, please!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Ps, I got my credit card out last night & bought coconut fibre to replace the sand which should be delivered on Tuesday. Where my tortoises are concerned I will find the money from somewhere to get them everything they need!

Excellent attitude!

 

[Kirstie]

Thank you so much for all so much for your advice; it's making me wonder why I wasn't on here sooner!

Diego sleeps more than Consuela, he usually burrows to sleep between 5:30 - 6:30 where as Consuela starts burrowing around 10ish. I think that's normal for Diego to sleep for a few hours longer as he's so small but what do you think?

They are both eating, walking & sleeping & I haven't seen any ramming from Consuela since Friday. Even though she is the big one this is still new to her so they are both being monitored as much as possible.

I'm definitely planning ahead & thinking of what I can do for them; even if everything is perfect things can always be improved.