Hi there from Southern CT ...&questions!

[DItzoid]

[/quote]Hi, My name is Stephanie and my tortoise is Tommy. I am new to this site, but have owned Tommy since Jan 2000! We've been through just about everything. Recently, I began to feel badly about him not getting nough attention, with two small kids and a dog. At this point, the kids are quite fond of Tommy and enjoy helping me take care of him, so he's getting attention again. However, the more research I do, I feel I always find conflicting information on Russian tortoises. My beloved vet just retired and I feel a little lost. So I decided to join the forum. Any advice or experiences are welcome.
Current concerns...
1. How to maintain the proper humidity in his tank? (It's about 20-30 percent, according to my meter, and that's near his water dish)
2
He seems to have a spot where his shell is loose, is there any way to tell if this is new or old? I think that spot has been brittle and or loose for a while but I was in denial. Could he have scratched himself against something in his enclosure or would it have to be a new problem? We treated long ago for fungus. Wen I got him he was malnurished and had some fungal shell problems. Back then, and ongoing for a while, the doctor scraped off the loose pieces of scute and had me wash him with a whatdoyoucallit...not iodine, a solution of water and something like iodine. I still have it and started wiping his shell down with it this week just in case.
3 The doctor had me stop soaking him because it was so hard to get rid of his shell problem. That was years ago. Lately, everything I read seems to stress the importance of the soak a few times a week. I've started doing that again. I hope I'm doing the right thing.
4. Recently I noticed what look like a large ring between some of his scutes and it almost seems like new growth...but it's pale and slightly tender to the touch (I think) and deeper than the rest of his shell... almost like a deep groove. I can't tell if it's a growth spurt or something is wrong with his shell or what. Any ideas? I will try to upload some pictures asap.
THANKS!!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Stephanie, and welcome to the Forum!!

Is it at all possible to build an outdoor habitat for your Russian tortoise? His shell problems will all resolve if he is allowed to be a tortoise in a natural environment.

When you read about humidity and tortoises, we are generally talking about very young tortoises. I get the impression from your post that Tommy is an older tortoise. The dry environment is quite ok, as long as there is a water dish for him to drink out of when he wants to.

We can't really tell you what's going on with the loose shell until we see what you're talking about, and as to the tender ring you mentioned, that's new growth...I'm 100% sure.

 

[DItzoid]

Thanks! OK Here I go to try to post some pictures. So will the new growth even out? I've never seen his shell do that before. I would love to build him an outdoor enclosure but there are stray cats galore and our winters are long. Just today we got snow, sleet and rain. I do try to let him hang out in the garden during the summer whenever I'm outside and can supervise. Usually he just finds some corner to hide in though. He also gets really paranoid outside and scoots into his shell rapidly at the slightest shadow overhead or whatever.
As for the newly chipped shell, I think it has been loose for a long time, but I never picked at it til today. Since I started soaking him again, I didn't want the water to build up under it. I want to do whatever I can to make sure the little guy doesn't lose any more shell pieces, though. As it is, he has quite a "bald" spot on one side of his body, mostly from the fungus thing I mentioned earlier, which it took a long time to eradicate, as well as an injury from when we first got our dog and the dog stole him from his old enclosure and chewed on him a bit. I'll explain that a bit more when I post my pictures.

 

[DItzoid]

Here are some pictures of Tommy. The second photo shows the spot where the outer layer of scute just recently came off, but earlier today (since the photo was taken) the second layer came off as well. It now looks similar to the other side of his body where he had extensive shell damage, which has long healed.

 

[DItzoid]

Here are a couple more photos. These show the area where Tommy's shell was damaged long ago from some type of fungal and/or moisture issue, but also where he had been injured by my dog.

I suppose I d better explain that one!
Tommy used to have the run of our apartment, then when we got the dog, the dog had a crate and the tort had a rubbermaid bin. Well, I had to leave town to take care of a friend in an emergency situation and my husband had to work and take care of some other things. For the first time, he left home and let the dog stay out of his crate. I got a phone call from half way across the country letting me know he (hubby) and my dad were at the emergency vet with Tommy. He turned out to be fine, but ever since then, he's been in a large glass terrarium, aside from when we let him out for supervised exercise, that is. We have been through so much with this tortoise through the years, and pretty much all of the bad stuff was a really long time ago. The most recent thing was having a tumor removed from his ? (between neck and shoulders), but even that was a couple years ago.
My poor little guy has been through that, the shell stuff, very poor nutrition in the pet shop where we got him, (which got him to be a very picky and not so healthy eater, though he seems to finally be coming around a bit, years and years later!) and parasites which took several vets and expertise from my vet's friends across the country to correctly identify and treat, oral medications for months (wow was that an ordeal!) and eventually shots to clear that up. He's pretty much been healthy for the past 5 years or so. (The tumor seems to have been benign)...but now this new shell thing. So I'm worried. Also, I know I need to get him to a vet to have his beak trimmed. I just have to find a new one since mine retired Sigh....Anyway...thanks for your opinion!

 

[DItzoid]

I think I posted the wrong picture.

 

[kanalomele]

Welcome to tfo! Humidity is maintained easiest by covering the top of his enclosure as much as possible. It holds moisture in quite simply. But adults dont need alot of humidity. Soaking is important, but for adults I generally never soak more than once a week. The exception to this with adults is when I have an ill rescue. My hatchlings get soaked daily. Occasionally it is normal for the keratin layers of a scute to lift. If the underlying tissue is healthy dont worry about it. I have a rescue that just came in yesterday with some lifting keratin and fungal rot. But its also very dehydrated and malnourished. I will scrub the areas with a stiff toothbrush after a soak, dry the shell thoroughly and apply some antifungal cream. The yellow areas around the scutes is almost certainly new growth. So well done you! Looking forward to pics of your little guy!

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

Hi & welcome from Northern CT

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Stephanie:

The lighter spaces between the scutes is just new growth. It is very uneven, though. Normally new growth appears the same around each scute. I'm a little worried about what looks to be cracks between the scutes towards the back of the tortoise. It looks black??

I don't usually recommend using topicals on a tortoise's shell, but I think your tortoise is the exception. I think he would benefit from some mineral oil rubbed into the shell. Put on just a little bit and polish it in with a soft cloth.

What do those black lines look like in person? Does it look to be cracks?

 

[DItzoid]

Thanks. That crooked dark black line going toward his tail? No. Not a crack at all. A weird dark spot. That part of his shell has always been kind of indented, and I think it grew weird. Aside from the color it does not look alarming at all in person. I feel like he was obviously a wild caught tortoise, since he had parasites, (in fact parasites my vet and his friends he emailed pics to had never seen in tortoises before) and probably badly taken care of/ treated in transport or whatever. When I first got him the top of his shell kind of looked like he had been scraped across the top and he already had a couple small spots where the top layer of shell had chipped off and already healed over, and this weird indented/ opposite of lumpy spot. His scutes have never been particularly even. I do agree, and worry that this new growth seems so uneven...unless it could be to even out his shell shape overall? I don't know. I also feel like he has grown significantly over the last couple years, but I haven't had him weighed or measured in quite a while. Well, significantly being a very relative term here. Shrug.

Anyone else suggest mineral oil?

Hi Stephanie:

The lighter spaces between the scutes is just new growth. It is very uneven, though. Normally new growth appears the same around each scute. I'm a little worried about what looks to be cracks between the scutes towards the back of the tortoise. It looks black??

I don't usually recommend using topicals on a tortoise's shell, but I think your tortoise is the exception. I think he would benefit from some mineral oil rubbed into the shell. Put on just a little bit and polish it in with a soft cloth.

What do those black lines look like in person? Does it look to be cracks?

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Hey, do you have a uv producing bulb for this tort? Concerning using mineral, information given you by Yvonne, can be trusted as coming from a tortoise/turtle rescuer with years, nay decades if treating injured, ailing tortoise and turtles. Hope this helps calm your concerns.

 

[DItzoid]

Thanks! Yes, uvlight in place and heater as well.

Hey, do you have a uv producing bulb for this tort? Concerning using mineral, information given you by Yvonne, can be trusted as coming from a tortoise/turtle rescuer with years, nay decades if treating injured, ailing tortoise and turtles. Hope this helps calm your concerns.

---

Hi & welcome from Northern CT

HI I love it that you have a great Dane and a basset hound! My dog is a golden retriever basset mix.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Very good. Another good place to start is by telling us your temps.
Cool side
Warm side
Basking spot
Night time
Do you have a digital thermometer, or just the stick on dial one in the picture?
Also, what is and how deep is your substrate?
Does he have a water dish at all times and if so, what is it.
All these questions help us help you help your tortoise.

 

[DItzoid]

OK thanks. I do not have a digital thermometer. In fact. I have to confess that I only recently got the one you can see in the picture with the humidity monitor and before that I just had another similar one without humidity gauge for the other side of the tank. It seems the cool end hovers around 70-75 degrees and the basking end about 85, possibly 90 depending on ambient temp in our house. I do have additional heating lights I could theoretically use to supplement if needed, but I'm not sure how to safely rig it up or whether it's really necessary. He doesn't hang out under the heating "lamp" very often. Usually he hides under his log, wherever I put it, or more recently, he seems to prefer a half cardboard box I just put into the cool end of his tank rather recently to give him a second hiding option. I read about that in a book on tortoises recently.
At night the temps are the same as during the day, roughly, though we turn the heat in the house down a touch and I turn the uv lamp off when I go to bed. (Turning the light off at night is a new development based on something I also just read in the previously mentioned book on tortoises.)
The heater is one of those ceramic coil things, not a light heater. I used to use the lights but they blew out on me all the time and it stressed me out to no end. This one heater coil has lasted quite a while. But I digress.
The substrate kind of thins out to nothing by the food, and is about ...roughly 2 inches deep on the other end, roughly. It has deeper and less deep places. Right now it's a combo of repti bark (cedar, I think) that I've been getting at petco, etc for quite a while, and something new I just got for the first time from the grocery store on a whim, called forest floor and it's cypress mulch.
I don't know if you read what I wrote about my (now former) vet discouraging me from soaking Tommy in order to keep him dry. He also told me to give him plenty of food, really wet to give him his water intake rather than leaving a water bowl. Since I read on some websites and in my book about the water dish being so important, and since I was also worried that his shell looks so dry, I cleaned off his old (store bought) water dish and have been filling it daily or as needed. I've never seen him show an interest in it (during the past couple weeks or long ago) but I think I've seen him drinking when he's soaking.
Help away! I am getting the idea that some of you tortoise enthusiasts are really more knowledgeable than the vets, since they are truly "reptile" experts. Anyway, I appreciate it!

PS My local park ranger told me to get a slate to put his food on so he can kind of trim his own beak on it as he eats. But I haven't located one yet....and the same ranger also told me to feed him dog food, which I am pretty certain is a definite no no. By the way I feed him every other day, with a little reptical vitamins sprinkled on top most of the time. I recently got a cuttlebone and put it in the tank. He shows no interest at all, but I scrape a smidgeon of it onto his food. His favorite food is escarole, and "spring mix" (the latter I only recently started buying, since I had been avoiding lettuces, not realizing it was just iceberg I needed to avoid...or is that right?) and he'll ocassionally take a couple bites of kale, collards, or bok choy. He'll nibble on carrots and loves strawberries, which are a rare treat.

I know it seems crazy that I can be so ignorant after having him for so long, but i've read and heard so much conflicting advice. And like I said for the longest time he had really pressing issues to deal with. Then the babies came along. I just want to fix whatever mistakes I may have made and get on the right track.

Very good. Another good place to start is by telling us your temps.
Cool side
Warm side
Basking spot
Night time
Do you have a digital thermometer, or just the stick on dial one in the picture?
Also, what is and how deep is your substrate?
Does he have a water dish at all times and if so, what is it.
All these questions help us help you help your tortoise.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I have seen Basset/Golden mixes and they are so cute and look much more alert than a standard droopy Basset.

Your coil heater is called a Ceramic Heat Emmitter or CHE and they do lose heat after awhile and need to be changed. The slate is a great idea, I use one in all my torts enclosures and put ii directly under the basking light so it can heat up and make a nice warm spot for the tort to bask, (i learned everything i know from TFO) you can get them from Home Depot or Lowes. If the beak is very over grown you might want to have a reptile vet trim it. I think you should also add a point and shoot thermometer to your home depot/ lowes list, they are inexpensive and can help you get really accurate readings around your enclosures and can be a great help in discovering when it is time to change a CHE or maybe even turn one off ii the enclosure is getting too hot.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Have you seen the section under tortoise specie/Mediterranean tortoises/Russian tortoises here on the forum? If not find it and study it. Books are great, but often they contain old information. Here, you will find active, present keeper that can help you in the here now. For my russian tortoises, I use a 50/50 mix of peat moss and organic top soil. Top soil, not potting soil. For water, I use a clay planter saucer. I sink this into the substrate and its easy then for them to get in and out of and it's not to deep for the tortoise.


3 sulcata
7 russian
2 pancake
1 uro
1 syko dog
6 cats
1 Wonderful Wife

 

[DItzoid]

Great, thanks. I never heard of a point and shoot thermometer! Cool! Yes, a trip to the vet is on the horizon. Have to choose which vet. Do you have one you like? If so, who and where?

I have seen Basset/Golden mixes and they are so cute and look much more alert than a standard droopy Basset.

Your coil heater is called a Ceramic Heat Emmitter or CHE and they do lose heat after awhile and need to be changed. The slate is a great idea, I use one in all my torts enclosures and put ii directly under the basking light so it can heat up and make a nice warm spot for the tort to bask, (i learned everything i know from TFO) you can get them from Home Depot or Lowes. If the beak is very over grown you might want to have a reptile vet trim it. I think you should also add a point and shoot thermometer to your home depot/ lowes list, they are inexpensive and can help you get really accurate readings around your enclosures and can be a great help in discovering when it is time to change a CHE or maybe even turn one off ii the enclosure is getting too hot.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

Yes, I use Roaring Brook Animal Clinic in Canton, CT. But I live in Northern CT so it might be too far for you. They have an exotic pet vet that I use and love.

When looking for a vet just make sure that they are actually exotic vets, my vet said that to maintain her license as an "exotic" pet vet she has to do a certain amount of continuing education a year, so they are really up on how to properly treat our shelled friends.

---

Duh, I should probably include the vet's name... Dr. Hersey-Benner.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

If you can't make it to the before mentioned vet, check out the vet list on this forum. Most states and regions are covered.


3 sulcata
7 russian
2 pancake
1 uro
1 syko dog
6 cats
1 Wonderful Wife

 

[DItzoid]

thank you. I'm honestly not sure where canton is but I will look it up.