Hibernation Nightmare!

ohio

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Having a bad day, was weighing my hibernating tortoises this morning when I touched the leg of one of my favorite marginted and she's not moving. Took her out warmed her up for an hour and a half then tried a warm soak. No good no movement. It's freaked me out enough that I woke everyone up. She hasn't lost over 10 percent of body weight. Good weight going into hibernation and I soaked her everyday for a week before putting her to sleep. None of the other tortoises effected. They're waking up just fine. I know three weeks ago the temp dropped to 37 deg Fahrenheit but has been constant between 39 & 41. Which means the average should of been 40 degrees witch is ideal temp I thought? Just venting can't figure it out. Makes me no want to hibernate them next year. Has anyone else ever had this issue? Is it normal? Could she of been sick in fall and showed no sign?
 

Tom

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Having a bad day, was weighing my hibernating tortoises this morning when I touched the leg of one of my favorite marginted and she's not moving. Took her out warmed her up for an hour and a half then tried a warm soak. No good no movement. It's freaked me out enough that I woke everyone up. She hasn't lost over 10 percent of body weight. Good weight going into hibernation and I soaked her everyday for a week before putting her to sleep. None of the other tortoises effected. They're waking up just fine. I know three weeks ago the temp dropped to 37 deg Fahrenheit but has been constant between 39 & 41. Which means the average should of been 40 degrees witch is ideal temp I thought? Just venting can't figure it out. Makes me no want to hibernate them next year. Has anyone else ever had this issue? Is it normal? Could she of been sick in fall and showed no sign?

How long did you leave temps and lighting at their normal, before beginning cooling and hydration? I stop feeding for two weeks with normal temps and lighting, then I begin shortening and cooling the days for another two weeks. Soaking daily or every other for that whole month. Then I put them down.

Your temps sound fine. 37 wouldn't hurt anything, and 40ish, should have been fine.
 

ohio

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In fall I started shortening the light cycle and basking time. Had stopped feeding for two weeks. Then had them in a bin in the basement for 48 hours in low 50's with no basking before putting them in refrigerator. This is the second time I've lost a tort through hibernation. I've read all the literature I can find online. Had everyone here help me the first time I did it, I'm just at a loss of what I might of done wrong.
 

ohio

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Everyone else is moving around fine moving to heat lights active and alert. Just the one. And I soaked everyone for a good hour to make sure they got some fluids in them.
 

wellington

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So sorry. Just an FYI you don't have to hibernate them.
I have a Russian I don't hibernate. I treat him the same has my leopards during winter months as far as heat, food, etc. he goes into a slight slow down on his own from food and wandering, it lasts about a month or so, then he's back to his bratty self for the rest of the winter.
 

ohio

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I did have her in a box with holes could she of suffocated? I opened the door daily to allow fresh air in.
 

ohio

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I know I don't have to hibernate them but I try to mimic nature the best I can. I've thought thousand of years of hibernating as a species helps with there longevity and over all health. My Russian tortoises are all fine, had five in hibernation. My hermann Tortoise is ok but my other marginted not acting right yet either. This was my first year hibernating the marginted, guess it went bad. I feel horrible about it.
 

tglazie

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This is terrible news. What media do you use when you hibernate? I use peat moss that has been allowed to sit out in the rain and elements from the spring to the autumn. One difference I've noticed between Marginated tortoises and other types of Testudo is their tendency to suffer dehydration during the sleep cycle. This can be much worse than in any other species I've maintained. As a result, I offer them luke warm water baths, twice per day, for two weeks prior to brumation. By the time they emerge from brumation, they are usually somewhat dehydrated, so I go through the same process. Baths, twice daily, for two weeks.

I can't imagine what else might be causing this, though. If your Russians and Hermanns are fine, then there's nothing poisoning the animals. All I can think is that hydration might be an issue.

T.G.
 

ohio

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I had shredded news paper under and around them so I would be able to see if they urinated during hibernation. I've done that with all tortoises. This was the first year I hibernated the marginted. But now you mentioned it my other marginted seemed to be quite dehydrated and I do soak all twice a day for the first three days then once a day for another week before there weekly soaks.
 

ohio

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Good morning giving everyone a good soak. All other tortoises seem to be eating and acting like normal torts. Almost back to per hibernation weights. Still at a loss on where I went wrong. My new tortoises from ATC are doing well and putting on weight as well.
 

tglazie

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I can't be 100% certain, but I would bet that dehydration is at least a contributing factor here. Marianna posted an interesting thread recently in the marginated tortoise section speaking in regards to how wet the winters are in the lands adjacent to the Aegean. Here it is: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hibernating-in-a-damp-climate.163378/

I don't know if there is a connection between the wet winters of Greece and Crete and the brumation conditions of marginated tortoises, and I don't know how brumation conditions work with Hermanns, Greeks, and Russians, but I can tell you that my experience with marginateds is that if they are not properly hydrated before brumation, they suffer for it during brumation. Additionally, I've always been paranoid about letting the humidity drop too low in my fridges during the winter. For this reason, I keep an open pan filled with water at the base of the fridge. This keeps the humidity around fifty percent, as opposed to twenty five percent without this. I feel this is a very big deal for them. The longer I've kept tortoises, the more I've come to realize that water, ambient humidity, and substrate moisture are absolutely critical toward the successful maintenance of tortoises. I'm lucky, given that I live in South Texas, where the humidity is generally always medium to high. I can only imagine what you're having to do in Ohio, where space heaters dry out everything, to keep things right. But yes, I would recommend changing the substrate next time to a soil base. Don't give up. If I gave up after killing a couple tortoises, I wouldn't have the knowledge and experience I have today. That sounds awful, but I've been doing this for decades, before the forum, before the internet was even really a thing and well before any of the information presented on it was worth anything.

T.G.
 

WithLisa

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I'm so sorry for your loss! :(
I agree with @tglazie, you should use a more natural substrate for all testudo species.

According to statistics in German forums it also seems the fridge is in general a more risky method of hibernation, that's why more and more people let their tortoises hibernate in their green houses/cold frames. But I don't know if that would be an option for you in Ohio?
 
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Maggie Cummings

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In fall I started shortening the light cycle and basking time. Had stopped feeding for two weeks. Then had them in a bin in the basement for 48 hours in low 50's with no basking before putting them in refrigerator. This is the second time I've lost a tort through hibernation. I've read all the literature I can find online. Had everyone here help me the first time I did it, I'm just at a loss of what I might of done wrong.


I have a number of box turtles and 5 Sulcata. I think that's enough for me right now. I haven't hibernated any of my chelonia. And won't in the future. They don't always live thru it. If you're not going to breed, let them get up. Hibernation is only needed if you're going to breed. Tom told me about the breeding thing, and if he didn't, we'll blame it on him anyway....Hi Tom! :)
 

ohio

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Thank you everyone. Planted daffodils on her plot in the orchard. My humidity was low 20's thur 40's. Didn't realize humidity had to be so high. I feel horrible and hope she didn't suffer. I'll be reconsidering hibernation next season or definitely figuring out a better method. My other torts are doing good everyone is eating and soaking 2 time a day.
 

RosemaryDW

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I’m sorry for your loss. My Russian came out of the fridge with a respiratory infection this week and I just about lost my mind.

@tglazie, that is interesting about the humidity. Not that it’s important, but that you are able to increase it that much.
 

tglazie

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I'm able to keep up the humidity through use of a large open water tray that I refresh every couple days. Plus I maintain the fridge in my insulated garage, and I keep open water barrels to provide aged water for my frogs and freshwater aquaria, so the place always has a high relative humidity. Additionally, I live in South Texas, and the relative humidity is generally always high unless a cold front comes blowing through. Whenever that happens, I have a humidifier for the garage and one for my reptile room on standby. My reptile room has a 300 gallon cattle trough in which I keep some pink bellied sidenecks, and with the submersible heater and percolating bio filter, a lot of humidity gets pumped into the air. Plus I irrigate the substrates of the indoor tortoise enclosures, so that provides quite a bit of humidity as well. I'm also a bit of a neat freak, so anytime humidity gets low, the coir, topsoil, and peat moss that comprise my various substrates tend to get rather dusty, and when that happens, that dust cakes on everything, and that is something I just can't stand, so I never allow the substrate to dry out too much. If the humidity stays high and if the substrate stays evenly and appropriately moist, that dust isn't a problem.

T.G.
 

tglazie

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Oh yes, and regarding fridge hibernation, I can't do it any other way. First thing is that Texas "winters" never get cold enough, long enough, consistently enough. Second thing is that I'd be concerned about rats eating my tortoises. Third thing, flooding. Texas "winters" can suffer very unpredictable precipitation. And lastly, I can't check on them. I weigh my kids weekly during brumation, and check on them daily to ensure that they're not suffering too much water loss and to make sure they have adequate amounts of oxygen and humidity. What I'd be interested in knowing is if someone could design a superior hibernaculum, a fridge that can maintain a medium humidity. That would be cool (literally, I suppose).

T.G.
 

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