How deep should the walls go for a Hermanns Tortoise?

[Michael Bird]

I'm in the planning stages of an outdoor enclosure for my Hermanns Tortoise and I'm trying to decide how to set up the outer wall/barrier.

My two top options right now are:

Fir wooden fence pickets, cut in half (3 feet) or thirds (2 feet) with half buried in the ground and half above ground to make a nice picket fence for the enclosure.
or
Cinder block pavers, also half buried and half above ground. Something like 16"x8"x2" blocks so about 8" above and below ground. Longer would be better, but 16" seems to be what is available around here. This is by far more durable than the wood, but also more expensive and doesn't provide as tall of a barrier unless I use multiple layers, which would make it even more expensive.

If you have other suggestions that will work and don't cost a lot, I am definitely open to other options.

I also plan to build a full "chicken coop" about 6 feet tall around and above the enclosure to keep predators out (particularly the neighborhood Peregrine Falcons and a few ravens now and then) while allowing easy walk-in access to the area as it is needed, but I want to get the basic setup done as soon as possible so I can get the plants and landscaping started so they can be more established before it is warm enough for the tortoise to start spending a significant amount of time outside.

 

[EricW]

6-12" deep below ground and 12" above ground. So far I have gotten away with 10" for a single male. Male's are smaller, but most people say at lease 12" and some go to 16". If I had more than one tortoise in the enclosure, more height is definitely worth it in case they pile up on each other and climb over.

 

[Michael Bird]

If 12" below and 12" above is enough, then I can get three sections out of each 6 foot fence board, and that will help reduce the cost a bit. But I do want to make sure it's enough to keep him (and maybe a "lady friend" or two in the future) properly contained.

 

[EricW]

6-12" deep below ground and 12" above ground. So far I have gotten away with 10" for a single male. Male's are smaller, but most people say at lease 12" and some go to 16". If I had more than one tortoise in the enclosure, more height is definitely worth it in case they pile up on each other and climb over.

lease = least. Sometimes I can edit, sometimes I can't. Also, I am horrible at proof reading when I use my phone and misspell a lot on my phone.

 

[Tom]

I'm in the planning stages of an outdoor enclosure for my Hermanns Tortoise and I'm trying to decide how to set up the outer wall/barrier.

My two top options right now are:

Fir wooden fence pickets, cut in half (3 feet) or thirds (2 feet) with half buried in the ground and half above ground to make a nice picket fence for the enclosure.
or
Cinder block pavers, also half buried and half above ground. Something like 16"x8"x2" blocks so about 8" above and below ground. Longer would be better, but 16" seems to be what is available around here. This is by far more durable than the wood, but also more expensive and doesn't provide as tall of a barrier unless I use multiple layers, which would make it even more expensive.

If you have other suggestions that will work and don't cost a lot, I am definitely open to other options.

I also plan to build a full "chicken coop" about 6 feet tall around and above the enclosure to keep predators out (particularly the neighborhood Peregrine Falcons and a few ravens now and then) while allowing easy walk-in access to the area as it is needed, but I want to get the basic setup done as soon as possible so I can get the plants and landscaping started so they can be more established before it is warm enough for the tortoise to start spending a significant amount of time outside.

Peregrin falcons are bird predators. They have no interest in your tortoise. Ravens won't mess with them once they are over 3-4 inches. Having said that, I do like a giant "cage" built around pens for smaller species to keep out their main predator: The family dog.

My star enclosures. The wire here extends 18 inches into the ground:


Wood in the ground will rot quickly. Pavers might be too abrasive. Use UV protected corrugated roofing plastic with a pressure treated lumber framework, ike this:





Alternatively, you really don't need to go underground and can contain them with a simple slumpstone wall:


And here is a simple way to house babies:

 

[EricW]

Are these safe to feed Tom? They look exotic.

 

[Sarah2020]

Wow you have lots of ideas and choices . My tortoise is a Russian who are known as escape artists so my outside had underground netting, cinder blocks and additional bricks as he gets a good stretch, it is really nice to provide an outside enclosure. Also consider safely with netting or wire top.

 

[Len B]

6-12" deep below ground and 12" above ground. So far I have gotten away with 10" for a single male. Male's are smaller, but most people say at lease 12" and some go to 16". If I had more than one tortoise in the enclosure, more height is definitely worth it in case they pile up on each other and climb over.

This is how I secure my Herman's
I use 2x12 #1 lumber and cap the entire enclosure. On the bottom I us thisI lay it on the ground without digging down and set the boards on it. Doing this they will have to start digging down several inches away from the wall which has never happened here. This product probably isn't available anymore since it's new old stock from before zip codes and made in the USA. But PVC would work in the same manner. What I have in aluminum is 4,5 and 6 inches wide, I believe what I used here is the 5 inch.

 

[EricW]

Not cheap, but I use Dig Defence spikes that are meant for dogs to keep them from digging under fences.

https://digdefence.com/

they also make a guard for the gate door. My yard is fenced in, but I have not forked over the cash to do my whole yard fence, but use these in my Herman's enclosure. I cover up uneven areas so they aren't trying to get through. Pic is just for example so you don't have to go to the website.

 

[Sarah2020]

Lots of great ideas to retain our shelled warriors!

 

[Tom]

Are these safe to feed Tom? They look exotic.

View attachment 357008

...says the guy from the humid south...

Those are a futile attempt to keep little birdies from eating all my seeds before they can germinate and sprout. Imagine my shock when I discovered that in the south you can just broadcast seed wherever you want and hordes of birds don't immediately descend upon it like pigeons being fed in a park. And then you people don't even have to "water" it because of all your annual rainfall... Sheesh.

 

[Michael Bird]

Thank you very much for all of the replies!

I know the wood fencing in the ground would rot eventually, but it was the least expensive option I had thought of at the time that would work and look OK.

Cinder blocks or slump bricks are definitely sturdier, but also a lot more expensive, and I need to keep the cost down as much as I can, while still making it secure enough.

I hadn't thought of using roofing panels. That's an interesting idea. My local Home Depot has panels that are 26" wide and 12' long. It would be a lot of cutting, but if I trim them down to 2 feet tall to bury 12" below ground and 12" above, or 3 feet to have 18" above and below, that would probably work, although more expensive than the fence boards, especially after adding the wood framing to hold the PVC up.

Another possibility that I thought of today is to dig a narrow trench down about 12" and pour concrete into it then stick the fence boards into the concrete. They won't rot that way, but it will make the barrier below ground pretty rough/abrasive, and much harder to replace individual boards if they get broken...

We don't have any dogs, but the predatory birds do concern me a bit, and we have seen red-tail hawks now and then, which might be more interested in the tortoise than the other birds would be. I've been debating whether 1" spaced chicken wire would be adequate, or if I need go with much heavier gauge (and more expensive) hardware wire cloth for the cage...

 

[Sarah2020]

I have heavier gauge wire on top that is removable with corregated plastic in top to protect from UK weather and helps heat up the enclosure. There are no hard and fast rules as long as it is escape and preditor proof and provides a nice outside habitat.

 

[Tom]

We don't have any dogs, but the predatory birds do concern me a bit, and we have seen red-tail hawks now and then, which might be more interested in the tortoise than the other birds would be. I've been debating whether 1" spaced chicken wire would be adequate, or if I need go with much heavier gauge (and more expensive) hardware wire cloth for the cage...

Everyone everywhere in our entire country has red tail hawks and coyotes. Most people also have possums, raccoons, rats, ants, and many others. Visiting dogs are a danger too. That happened to a friend of mine.

Chicken wire will stop any bird predators, but it might not stop larger heavier animals like raccoons or dogs.

 

[Michael Bird]

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid, but I really do want to make sure he's protected, while not spending too much and making my wife mad.

The only dog I'm aware of nearby is a small yappy rat thing that barks a lot but is terrified of everyone and everything, and her owners keep a close eye on her.

No coyotes or raccoons here, but we do have a couple of ground squirrels that (I believe) are living under the tool shed in another part of the yard.

Our neighbors two houses down have a pretty good flock of chickens that run loose in their yard with no cover except for their nesting coop and I'm pretty sure they haven't ever lost any to predators..

The corrugated roof idea did point me to another possible option for a ground dig barrier that I think will work, cost less than the roofing, and according to the specs is about twice as thick as the roofing and is designed to be in the ground, so I think I like this option. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century...ne-Water-and-Bamboo-Barrier-CWB2450/305122441

 

[Tom]

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid, but I really do want to make sure he's protected, while not spending too much and making my wife mad.

The only dog I'm aware of nearby is a small yappy rat thing that barks a lot but is terrified of everyone and everything, and her owners keep a close eye on her.

No coyotes or raccoons here, but we do have a couple of ground squirrels that (I believe) are living under the tool shed in another part of the yard.

Our neighbors two houses down have a pretty good flock of chickens that run loose in their yard with no cover except for their nesting coop and I'm pretty sure they haven't ever lost any to predators..

The corrugated roof idea did point me to another possible option for a ground dig barrier that I think will work, cost less than the roofing, and according to the specs is about twice as thick as the roofing and is designed to be in the ground, so I think I like this option. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century...ne-Water-and-Bamboo-Barrier-CWB2450/305122441

My friend had a Russian group living in his backyard and wasn't concerned about dogs because he didn't have one. Wife's uncle stopped by for a visit, and brought his dog. Without thinking, the uncle and wife let the dog in the back yard for a potty break. My friend came home to find his beloved hand raised baby chewed to pieces in the friendly dogs mouth. Everyone was literally sick about it. So yeah. I am all for cages built around smaller tortoise species. You just never know, and I don't think you are being paranoid.

The breeder of my SA leopards loses babies to ground squirrels every year. They hatch in the adult pens because he doesn't incubate them artificially. Squirrels eat them like Big Macs.

I like the product you found, but I have two concerns with it. My concerns may be unfounded since I have no experience with it, but: 1. That black is going to heat up and get super hot in your summer sun. 2. You will need a substantial frame to make that stuff stand up straight and conform to your pen walls, where the corrugated stuff stands up on its own and the framing is more to make it look nicer. Bert Langerwurf used to make his outdoor tegu pens out of the corrugated roofing material and he didn't use any framing around the top. Just a big round pen sticking out of the ground.