How fast are these babies supposed to grow?

[freefood]

First of all, I wanted to say that, whoa, my thread from months ago is still the 6th result on this board. Makes me feel special I have a marginated tortoise .

On topic, I've had my tortoise-named her (pretty sure) Fluffy- for almost a year now, and I haven't seen much growth. It's a bit over her first year (dang I missed her birthday, gotta check with the breeder), and strangely, she seems about the same size. She feels heavier, but size-wise, I don't see much of a change. Is this normal?

I'll post pictures tomorrow. I was going to do one, but I just saw her crawl into her cave thingy from Petco, and I decided not to disturb her natural rest cycle.

Could it be related to the diet? I'm feeding her napa, spinach (of course sparingly), and bok choy, every day, and a mazuri pellet every other. To mix it up, I throw in some fruits, carrots, and anything else I can find that doesn't go against this site's feeding guides. I sprinkle some calcium with vitamin D every week or so.

 

[GBtortoises]

As a keeper of all the species of Northern Mediterranean tortoise, of which Marginateds are a part of, I can tell you that they will all grow at different rates up to adulthood. Different environmental conditions (temperatures, light, diet, humidity, exclusively kept indoors, part time outdoors, etc...) will absolutely influence their growth rate and appearance. There is no set in stone formula. Generally speaking a one year old Marginated raised in captivity under "normal" conditions will be close to or double it's birth size in about 12-16 months.

I would be much less concerned about how fast a tortoise is growing and more concerned about how smooth and correctly. It requires constant monitoring. I sometimes even use photo references of the same tortoise over a period of time to monitor it's growth.

The diet that you list needs to be greatly expanded in terms of variety of greens. I would also not be feeding a young Marginated so much Mazuri. Fruits should not be part of their regular diet and really should not be fed at all. Carrots are fine occasionally, as other good quality vegetables. Marginateds, more than any other Testudo species will consume large amounts of calcium at various stages of development. It should be available to them 24/7 in the form of powdered calcium for young tortoises and cuttlebone for larger tortoises. A small, shallow dish of powedered calcium should be present in their enclosure at all times.

Marginateds are also one of the "easiest" Testudo species to develop pyramiding and irregular growth in which is another reason that they're diet needs to be of good quality and monitored constantly.

What are the day/night & basking temperatures? Ambient humidity? Substrate? Any other information would help too as well as some photos.

 

[freefood]

Well, she seems to be growing decently if you put it that way then. I suppose some tortoises take longer is all. Here's the pictures I promised:

taken in January

taken 10 minutes ago

Similar size, and I think that's pretty correct. I mean, they're supposed to be really elongated at adulthood, but I suppose she looks about right for her age. She's a bit more than 2 inches (5 cm) long. Normal size?

Yeah, I'll stock up on leafy greens next time I shop. I used to get a bunch of everything, but eventually stopped. Thanks for reminding me how important that was.

Powdered calcium 24/7? Will do. And I think she somehow knows how to regulate her diet. She only eats the Mazuri half the time, and scarcely eats the fruits I put out. Pretty smart if you ask me.

EDIT: Wow the substrate is getting really old. Gotta change that. Stupid me for neglecting my tortoise more and more .

 

[GBtortoises]

What temperatures and humidity levels is your tortoise being kept at? Does your tortoise also have a dark, secure place to hide? Security is very important to a baby tortoise and promotes normal activity. Is there water available within the enclosure and/or is your tortoise watered (soaked) outside of it's enclosure regularly?

There really should be no reason to completely change a soil based substrate as long as it is spot cleaned regularly (daily).

 

[freefood]

Humidity is around 50%, and temperature is 95ish in the day, 75ish at night on the heated side.

That's the problem, I don't really clean it out, except for the old food that she didn't eat the previous day.

 

[GBtortoises]

Ambient humidity for a baby Marginated should be in the 50-70% So you're at the very bottom of that. 55-65% would be better. The substrate looks very dry in the photos. It's been found that baby tortoises will grow smoother and better in captivity in an environement that is kept higher in overall humidity by means of ambient air humidity, substrate moisture and constant hydration of the tortoise through water intake.

Is it 95 degrees under the basking light or within the enclosure in general? A temperature of 90-100 degrees directly under the basking light is good. An average ambient temperature within the enclosure that high is too hot. The cooler end of the enclosure during the daytime should be within a range of about 72-84 degrees. The end with the basking light will naturally be warmer around the area of the light itself.

Unless the room that the tortoise is in drops below 62 degrees at night, there is no reason for a night time heat. 75 degrees is much too warm at night for a Northern Mediterranean species like the Marginated. For normal activity they should have an approximate temperature differential from day to night of about 15-20 degrees.

Does your tortoise have hiding areas to escape the heat and light?

Can you post photos of the entire enclosure so that we can get a better idea?

What type of lighting are you using for basking and UVB?

 

[KQ6AR]

Over 2" after a year isn't bad. My adults are about 10" after 12 years. My hatchlings from this summer are 1"- 1 1/2"
As far as diet I don't feed any of the things you listed. We feed more high calcium greens like collard greens, turnip greens, dandelion greens, cactus pads, fruitless mulberry leaves, & a lot of different weeds that grow around our place.

Check some of the diet recommendations at www.russiantortoise.org

---

I just re=read you're first post. If you're using a good quality uv light get rid of the calcium with 3D
A lot of people believe its possible for them to overdose on the 3D, when a quality UV light is used.

I buy calcium powder at the health food store for people, its a lot cheaper that way, & probably contains less contaminants since its for human consumption.

 

[freefood]

Ambient humidity for a baby Marginated should be in the 50-70% So you're at the very bottom of that. 55-65% would be better. The substrate looks very dry in the photos. It's been found that baby tortoises will grow smoother and better in captivity in an environement that is kept higher in overall humidity by means of ambient air humidity, substrate moisture and constant hydration of the tortoise through water intake.

Is it 95 degrees under the basking light or within the enclosure in general? A temperature of 90-100 degrees directly under the basking light is good. An average ambient temperature within the enclosure that high is too hot. The cooler end of the enclosure during the daytime should be within a range of about 72-84 degrees. The end with the basking light will naturally be warmer around the area of the light itself.

Unless the room that the tortoise is in drops below 62 degrees at night, there is no reason for a night time heat. 75 degrees is much too warm at night for a Northern Mediterranean species like the Marginated. For normal activity they should have an approximate temperature differential from day to night of about 15-20 degrees.

Does your tortoise have hiding areas to escape the heat and light?

Can you post photos of the entire enclosure so that we can get a better idea?

What type of lighting are you using for basking and UVB?

50%-70%? I actually thought the humidity was too high. Good to know.

Yeah, the substrate was extremely dry, after I watered it, it looked a lot better.

It's 95 at the heated side, 80 on the non heated. And I guess I'll be saving a few bucks on my electricity bill then. I'm using a mercury vapor bulb for heating, and a ceramic heat emitter for night (although I guess I won't need it as much anymore).

I guess these just grow more slowly then other Mediterranean species.

 

[KQ6AR]

The only heat we use for ours is the basking light, no nighttime heat. The cool end of our enclosure is the ambient temp of our house. Our baby nursery is 6' long with the light at the far end. The top is open.

We keep the substrate damp as the source of humidity. They get a warm bath once a week to keep them hydrated. I've been raising them about 14 years with good growth, all the way to adulthood.

 

[marginatawhisperer]

Nice to see there are marginata owners in the US. I try to keep growth under one inch a year, but it is hard. I keep night quarters humid, with clear plastic door hanging low. I have started to use water based hand lotion on their shells. Dandelions are supposed to be very good, as they concentrate calcium, but I have not seen an investigation proving this true in calcium deficient soil.
Proud owner 2.0.2 Testudo marginata marginata in Sweden. Could use female.

 

[marginatawhisperer]

When in your experience does Marginata slow down growth? Mine are 4.5 years.

 

[Yvonne G]

When in your experience does Marginata slow down growth? Mine are 4.5 years.

Hi marginatawhisperer:

Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?

 

[Turtlechasers]

Hi... This from a researcher's point of view...
I have growth data on individuals from hatching to sexing.
Lighting set to 14 hours year round:
Diet composed completely of natural forage:
ADG (averge daily gain) = .38 - .57g
For parameters of the study please email.