How soft should shell be for a yearling Aldabra?

ben awes

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Hi all, I've been wondering how hard the shell should be for a yearling Aldabra? Uncle Bri is 12-14 months old and his shell is not real hard. I am only use to Leopards which grow slower. From my experience Leopard shells are thicker and harder by one year. His shell is not real "soft", just thinner than my leopards and softer. Not sure what is normal with Aldabras? He is eating fine, active, he has UVB lighting, calcium with and without D3, vitamins.

Thanks,
Ben
 

wellington

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This is a question for Greg, ALDABRAMAN. However, at a year, I would think any tortoise species should be hard. In fact I would say at only a month or so they should be hard. The only give should be the bottom shell/plastron and it should just barely have a give to it. Hopefully Greg will come in on this.
 

T33's Torts

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Help AldabraMan! Help!
*mentally imagines*
ALDABRAMAN TO THE RESCUE!!
 

wellington

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If it went through, I emailed Greg with a link to this thread. Asking for him to check this out. Hang on:)
 

ben awes

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Thanks everyone! I appreciate your help and concern.
 

mikeh

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Hi Ben, have you measured bulbs UVB output? What kind of UVB and what brand are you using?
 

ben awes

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mikeh said:
Hi Ben, have you measured bulbs UVB output? What kind of UVB and what brand are you using?

I have not measured it in a few weeks, so i don't recall the readings and they are off now, everyone sleeping. I use a 160W Sun Force mercury vapor UVB and a 10.0 Reptilglow. I've used all different types over the years. Like I said, i don't think it is overly soft, just softer than my leopards, but i don't know if a difference between the twos should be expected.
 

ALDABRAMAN

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ben awes said:
I've been wondering how hard the shell should be for a yearling Aldabra?

* Hey Ben, this is a common question we get on a regular basis. We have found found that it is not uncommon for some aldabras to have a soft (meaning flexible) plastron during the first couple years of growth. The carapace should not be as soft. As they grow/develop the carapace and plastron do naturally get thicker/stronger and loose that flexibility. We find this flexibility more pronounced when they are not raised outside and allowed to thermal regulate in unfiltered sunshine.

wellington said:
The only give should be the bottom shell/plastron and it should just barely have a give to it.

* Exactly!

vz8w7q.jpg
 

mikeh

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Re: RE: How soft should shell be for a yearling Aldabra?

ben awes said:
mikeh said:
Hi Ben, have you measured bulbs UVB output? What kind of UVB and what brand are you using?

I have not measured it in a few weeks, so i don't recall the readings and they are off now, everyone sleeping. I use a 160W Sun Force mercury vapor UVB and a 10.0 Reptilglow. I've used all different types over the years. Like I said, i don't think it is overly soft, just softer than my leopards, but i don't know if a difference between the twos should be expected.

Given that he is indoors for most of the year it may be a good idea to look into higher quality UVB bulbs. I would think at the rate your guy grows he needs plenty of it and of GOOD quality. Not all artificial UVB is created equal. Even if the output of your bulbs is nominal ( ideally 150-220 microwatts) at carapace level, the wavelength ratios is known to be off with cheaper brands.
I would look into Mega Ray for MVB and Arcadia 3D+ HO T5 12% for long tube. The wavelength ratios in these two brands are just far more superior in replicating unfiltered sun, they also retain more of the output after the burn in period and have much better lifetime.
 

ben awes

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mikeh said:
ben awes said:
mikeh said:
Hi Ben, have you measured bulbs UVB output? What kind of UVB and what brand are you using?

I have not measured it in a few weeks, so i don't recall the readings and they are off now, everyone sleeping. I use a 160W Sun Force mercury vapor UVB and a 10.0 Reptilglow. I've used all different types over the years. Like I said, i don't think it is overly soft, just softer than my leopards, but i don't know if a difference between the twos should be expected.

Given that he is indoors for most of the year it may be a good idea to look into higher quality UVB bulbs. I would think at the rate your guy grows he needs plenty of it and of GOOD quality. Not all artificial UVB is created equal. Even if the output of your bulbs is nominal ( ideally 150-220 microwatts) at carapace level, the wavelength ratios is known to be off with cheaper brands.
I would look into Mega Ray for MVB and Arcadia 3D+ HO T5 12% for long tube. The wavelength ratios in these two brands are just far more superior in replicating unfiltered sun, they also retain more of the output after the burn in period and have much better lifetime.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've used Mega Ray before and my bulbs popped within a week. He said that I had gotten a couple from a bad batch and that they would replace them and they he never did. Not to fond of those, but I will consider again. I have not heard of Arcadia. They look great - but they do suggest a $175 fixture to go with the 4' tubes! Wow, I don't like to skimp on my pets, but that's a lot! Is that fixture required?
 

mikeh

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MegaRay went thru different manufacturers due to defective batches, etc. Their customer service is not up to par, only being persistent with phone calls will get you somewhere.
However, their bulb is still best among MVB choices.

Arcadia long tube is better choice still IMO. You don't need the fixture that comes from LightYourReptiles, as a matter of fact I have their HO T5 4' double fixture and I cant recommend it at all. The housing is made of plastic, ballast runs much hotter then a quad fixture I have, bulbs are spaced too close and they are held in place by the glass, etc.
But you do need T5 HIGH OUTPUT fixture for the 12% UVB tubes. Standard T5 fixture wont do.
I can recommend New Wave, by Sun Systems. I have their 4' quad fixture which houses 4 tubes. I run two Arcadia tubes on the outside with two 5600k bulbs in the middle. It runs cool, construction is of good quality, more importantly has a very high quality specular aluminum reflectors with 95% reflectivity output and good diffusion. It produces enough gentle radiant heat from the four bulbs (10F above surrounding ambient temp. at 15-16" height, which is also an ideal height for UVB output of around 120microwats) that I don't even use basking light in a closed chamber set up.
Hydrofarm fixtures are as good. Either of these quad fixtures are around $100 if you do some shopping plus shipping. Single 4' fixture with reflector is around $45. Hydrofarm comes with day light bulbs included so its a better value then New Wave(no bulbs)
Hope any of this helps.
 

ben awes

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mikeh said:
MegaRay went thru different manufacturers due to defective batches, etc. Their customer service is not up to par, only being persistent with phone calls will get you somewhere.
However, their bulb is still best among MVB choices.

Arcadia long tube is better choice still IMO. You don't need the fixture that comes from LightYourReptiles, as a matter of fact I have their HO T5 4' double fixture and I cant recommend it at all. The housing is made of plastic, ballast runs much hotter then a quad fixture I have, bulbs are spaced too close and they are held in place by the glass, etc.
But you do need T5 HIGH OUTPUT fixture for the 12% UVB tubes. Standard T5 fixture wont do.
I can recommend New Wave, by Sun Systems. I have their 4' quad fixture which houses 4 tubes. I run two Arcadia tubes on the outside with two 5600k bulbs in the middle. It runs cool, construction is of good quality, more importantly has a very high quality specular aluminum reflectors with 95% reflectivity output and good diffusion. It produces enough gentle radiant heat from the four bulbs (10F above surrounding ambient temp. at 15-16" height, which is also an ideal height for UVB output of around 120microwats) that I don't even use basking light in a closed chamber set up.
Hydrofarm fixtures are as good. Either of these quad fixtures are around $100 if you do some shopping plus shipping. Single 4' fixture with reflector is around $45. Hydrofarm comes with day light bulbs included so its a better value then New Wave(no bulbs)
Hope any of this helps.

Thanks (mike?) - is this what you are recommending:

http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134303

And which mega ray bulb do you like - the regular or zoo version or?

Ben
 

mikeh

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Yes that is one of the recommended fixtures. However, what you cant see in the pictures is that the top of the fixture is semi open for cooling as the ballast is placed above the bulbs. Small issue I can see is the dust build up inside the fixture over time. Also if you spray your tort with water, caution needs to be used not to get the water on top of the fixture. The Hydrofarm designer series FLP44 has solid top as the ballasts are placed next to the bulbs eliminating potential issues above and also has slightly better total lume output, believe 20,000 lumes versus 18,800lumes. It is $30 more, but IMO worth it. Either fixture is a great choice.

MegaRay Zoo version is a very strong UVB bulb. Its great for UVB. With that being said, it is not really intended for basking light if that is your intention. It needs to be placed at minimum of 3+' above the tort. At that distance it will most likely not provide enough heat to create basking temp. In general MegaRay run somewhat cooler compared to other MVBs. Either 160W or 275W would be a better choice depending on the surrounding ambient temp of your basement and area footage intended for basking. 275W will provide wider circumference of UVB and basking area as it will be placed higher then 160W.

(In today's world flooded with cheap manufacturing to maximize profits and full of disposable products one even needs to do a research on underwear to get some value for the money.)

Before resorting to MegaRay, I would see how the tort utilizes UVB and basking from the quad florescent fixture. With two outer tubes being 12% UVB bulbs, it will make for 8square feet of solid UVB area. If he spends good amount of time in this area no additional UVB is needed IMO. This is a high output 216W fixture and does produce some radiant heat. If you keep the surrounding ambient temp at 80F the area under the fixture will get to around 90-92F at the distance I mentioned earlier. Its a nice even gentle radiant heat diffused under the entire light, much like that of the sun, ( unlike narrow hot spots produced by some MVBs and all incadescents). This alone may be enough for basking as its a large area, not narrow hot spot typically needed to keep the tort warm. Perhaps a small CHE at the edge of the fixture slightly aiming under the fixture to bump up the basking temp further if need be.
Mike
 

ben awes

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Mike - Very Frustrating!

I got the 4', 4 bulb Hydrofarm EnviroGro T5 fixture that you recommended, and the Arcadia 12% T5 bulbs. The fixture won't run two Arcadia's and two 6500 bulbs that came with the fixture. It will run 4 of the 6500K bulbs, and it will run one 6500K plus one Arcadia, but it won't run two Arcadia by themselves, or two arcadia with two 6500K! I am in the middle of conversations with Hydroponics where I got the fixture - but VERY frustrating to spend that kind of money just in order to get something that works well - and then it does not work! Any suggestions from your experience?

Thanks,
Ben
 
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