I received an interesting response about Mazuri

[ascott]

I'm lead to believe that there are fruiting trees year round in south america in one part or another. But a redfoot doesn't wander the length and width of South America to find fruit. So it will eat the ripe fruit from within its vicinity, which will be seasonal.
I was reading the other day about one study that suggested a redfoot will wander on average 87metres/95yards within a day within the same vicinity. So foraging in the same area then retreating back to the same burrows for the night, in groups too. So it becomes familiar with that area. This, I thought tallied up with the fact what we all say about a tort sulking in a new enclosure that it's not familiar with.

This is why when I hear folks say, don't ever feed fruit to a tortoise I cringe..in my opinion, by observing personally as well as speakjng with numerous folks, offering fruit as part of a tort diet is not a bad thing...here I will offer watermelon from time to time (one year during peak hydration time I will offer watermelon to the CDT then skip it the next year, etc) the water content is so beneficial..I will also almost daily during the hottest kinth or two offer entire huge organic heads of romaine to each of the CDT who happily consume entire said head and then they graze in their evening outings on what grows in their yards...works well, not only hydrated but a little pleasure as well...

Yes, nature provides a food layout that works well..feast or famine is so accurate for many things in life..

 

[wellington]

I didn't get permission to use his name , but he's a very well thought of Florida breeder and keeper.
I kind of posted his response as a question to the "collective".
I'll ask to use his name and see if he wishes to take part in our conversation.

This is an interesting thread. It's too bad though that such a blanket statement, one that seems to go against what most believe, has no one to show proof of this statement. I have seen pics of a couple well known tortoise breeders tortoises, however, if you look at their tortoises, you probably would want to pass on buying them. Well known doesn't always mean knowledgeable. It's too bad he won't share more then just a blanket statement. His statement has gotten people rethinking, just hope it's in the right direction. I don't have RF so I can't add to that part of it.
Maybe through you, he would be willing to share his data/proof of how he came to make this statement.

 

[AnimalLady]

This thread was getting good, I wish your friend would have been okay to joining the convo, would have loved a little more elaboration on his side.

 

[Elohi]

Going through the ingredients list, here are the things I have some concern with. I think this food is better for omnivores than straight up herbivores.

Ground soybean hulls: see dehulled soy meal.

ground corn: debatable sugar content (better for omnivores?)

dehulled soybean meal: plant estrogens and high levels of phytates

wheat middlings: nutritional content varies widely depending on source. It is used frequently as an inexpensive filler for pet food for animals such as dogs and cats, who do not digest wheat products as readily. (Less important but interesting point)

cane molasses: obvious source of sugar (debatable benefits vs drawbacks)

wheat germ: high Phytic acid content (higher than soy)

soybean oil: highly processed oil.

dl-methionine: (why?)
* Most often used to acidify the urine of dogs and cats
* May be useful in preventing the return of certain bladder stones

What animal should not take this medication?
* Animals with liver, pancreatic or kidney disease
* Animals with metabolic acidosis, or those with urate kidney or bladder stones
* Not for use in animals less than 1 year of age
* Not intended for pregnant or nursing animals
* Animals on an urine acidifying diet unless directed by your veterinarian
* Animals with a known hypersensitivity or allergy to this DL-Methionine should not take this medication


Comparing these ingredients to zoomed grassland pellets, the zoomed pellets are slightly better but still use soyhulls and wheat middlings. In my opinion, they'd be perfect without those fiber and protein sources.

 

[Prairie Mom]

Going through the ingredients list, here are the things I have some concern with. I think this food is better for omnivores than straight up herbivores.

Ground soybean hulls: see dehulled soy meal.

ground corn: debatable sugar content (better for omnivores?)

dehulled soybean meal: plant estrogens and high levels of phytates

wheat middlings: nutritional content varies widely depending on source. It is used frequently as an inexpensive filler for pet food for animals such as dogs and cats, who do not digest wheat products as readily. (Less important but interesting point)

cane molasses: obvious source of sugar (debatable benefits vs drawbacks)

wheat germ: high Phytic acid content (higher than soy)

soybean oil: highly processed oil.

dl-methionine: (why?)
* Most often used to acidify the urine of dogs and cats
* May be useful in preventing the return of certain bladder stones

What animal should not take this medication?
* Animals with liver, pancreatic or kidney disease
* Animals with metabolic acidosis, or those with urate kidney or bladder stones
* Not for use in animals less than 1 year of age
* Not intended for pregnant or nursing animals
* Animals on an urine acidifying diet unless directed by your veterinarian
* Animals with a known hypersensitivity or allergy to this DL-Methionine should not take this medication


Comparing these ingredients to zoomed grassland pellets, the zoomed pellets are slightly better but still use soyhulls and wheat middlings. In my opinion, they'd be perfect without those fiber and protein sources.

Really interesting. Thanks for posting this Elohi.

 

[Prairie Mom]

This HAS been a really interesting thread and I do think it's moving my way of thinking in a positive direction.

The only other sulcata owner, I've met where I live feeds his tortoise mazuri and some form of hay through the long winter. I think he thought I was a little crazy when I showed him some of my food preparations that I was working on. Reading this thread has only made me further motivated to vary my tortoise's diet. HECK--Alaskamike's comment made me want to make sure my own diet is varied enough!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Even though I've been using it for almost ten years, I haven't fed any of it since getting the Email.
The thing is, I only give it to my tortoises because they love it so much or as a way to administer a drug, etc. And at the moment there are no issues with any of them.
I grow or can find really great food and a large variety all year long. I also have no picky eaters now. Supplementing the diet with Mazuri is not something I need to do at all.
I'm going to feed it a little less. I'm not as comfortable about it as I was..

 

[Anyfoot]

Even though I've been using it for almost ten years, I haven't fed any of it since getting the Email.
The thing is, I only give it to my tortoises because they love it so much or as a way to administer a drug, etc. And at the moment there are no issues with any of them.
I grow or can find really great food and a large variety all year long. I also have no picky eaters now. Supplementing the diet with Mazuri is not something I need to do at all.
I'm going to feed it a little less. I'm not as comfortable about it as I was..

It's a personal choice ed. I wouldn't have thought a small amount of anything edible can do damage. But if I lived in Florida and natural foods were available year round there would be no argument in my mind. Nothing against mazuri at all, I don't know enough. But natural as possible where ever possible is my option. Hell I'm going to attempt to grow year round foods over here in the uk. Now that will be a laugh. Lol.

 

[Prairie Mom]

It's a personal choice ed. I wouldn't have thought a small amount of anything edible can do damage. But if I lived in Florida and natural foods were available year round there would be no argument in my mind. Nothing against mazuri at all, I don't know enough. But natural as possible where ever possible is my option. Hell I'm going to attempt to grow year round foods over here in the uk. Now that will be a laugh. Lol.

Totally agree

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I guess I'll faze it out. It all began back when I had tortoises that would only eat certain things, but they would all eat the Mazuri. It was a pain to make meals for each individual tortoise and them separate them at meal time, etc. Some would only eat food if it had Mazuri on it.
Now I have six very happy to eat anything tortoises.
I'm also going to look into offering less sugary and more natural fruits, like figs to the diet.

 

[Len B]

I will keep feeding my sulcatas both types of mazuri on a regular bases along with the rest of their varied diet.,mostly weeds and grasses. and when available fresh leaves and opuntia fruit and pads.I have a sulcata that turned 5 years old last month that I got as a hatchling. It was fed mazuri along with the greens. I changed a few things over time like adding the LS mazuri when it came out and drying the lawn and re hydrating it to feed during winter. She laid 23 eggs a few weeks ago, after laying the eggs she weighed 52 pounds. I have 5 sulcatas that range in age from 3 to 19 years old and 30 plus to 125 plus pounds. They might not all be smooth shelled but they are all healthy. Why should I stop feeding mazuri ? Five years old and 23 eggs, I don't think it would have happened without mazuri.

 

[DawnH]

Mazuri is crack for Tuleo. He is outside all day grazing on grasses/weeds and the like and a few times a week I fill a child's medicine cup full of the pellets (I think 6 fit) and soak them and give them to him (no one panic, they are new and using them is super easy. Fill with pellets, fill with water, microwave for 5 seconds and let sit for three minutes.) I started this when he was little because of how tiny he was and my worry that he just wasn't getting "enough." How do you judge if it is doing harm? Do we call it a treat now? Back off more? I am not so alarmed that I feel it is necessary to pull it all together but that is also because I know how much FRESH he gets. I cannot imagine a 100% mazuri diet though...

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I have no indication that any of my tortoises have ever been harmed by Mazuri. In fact they have thrived with it as part of the diet.
This was the first time that anyone ever said and I had read WHY the ingredients would be/are harmful.
I'm glad that so many of us use the stuff or have in the past and so far, never any stories of sickness that was attributed to Mazuri.
Thanks for sharing.