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I think I have an Angulate but not sure

Discussion in 'Bowsprit tortoises' started by dovijoel, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. dovijoel

    dovijoel New Member

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    Hi all

    I am a new member, this is my first post.

    So I am feeling a bit silly. (Maybe a lot silly). After doing months of research on Leopard tortoises, I went to fetch Ninja but when I got home I realised that perhaps I didn't get a Leopard tortoise after all - Ninja seems to be an Angulate!

    His length is 10cm SCL. I haven't weighed him yet. About how old would this make him?

    Can someone please help confirm my identification? I've attached some pics.

    Thanks for your help :D @CarolM maybe you can help?

    20190813_210756.jpg 20190813_210807.jpg 20190813_210834.jpg 20190813_210855.jpg 20190813_210902.jpg
  2. Sulcatafriend

    Sulcatafriend New Member

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    It's a angulate
  3. dovijoel

    dovijoel New Member

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    Ok, thanks for the reply :)
  4. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

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    He's beautiful!
  5. Blackdog1714

    Blackdog1714 Well-Known Member

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    Just hope the breeder doesn't want you to pay the difference!:) Nice deal and cute tort
    Kipley likes this.
  6. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club

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    That is not an angulate tortoise. That is a Natal Hingeback. Kinixys natalensis They are native to the northeastern part of South Africa.
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  7. dovijoel

    dovijoel New Member

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    No he didn't. He was supposed to get me a Leopard, but he said all the Leopards from his breeder didn't look healthy.

    Thanks Mark. If it really is a Natal Hingeback, I would be quite upset because it is listed as Vulnerable :(
  8. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club

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    sorry forgot the other question you had. It is quite young. Definately looks captive raised and probably about 2 years, maybe 3 years old. Just starting to develop the hinge.

    Although "vulnerable" that is actually a pretty "less threatened" category as listing goes. Its only the second level (category) of listing. They are still pretty common.

    I think the listing goes:
    least concern
    vulnerable
    near threatened
    threatened
    endangered
    critically endangered
    extinct in wild
    extinct
  9. dovijoel

    dovijoel New Member

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    Thanks for the more detailed response! Can you tell me what are its identifying features to categorise it as Natal Hingeback and captive raised?

    Also, would the care sheet for Kinixys Belliana Nogueyi be OK for the Kinixys natalensis?
  10. Markw84

    Markw84 Well-Known Member 5 Year Member Platinum Tortoise Club

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    Hingebacks have a very distinctive "look" if you are familiar with looking at thousands of tortoises! The patter they develop as young tortoises have a very squared look. The squares of the marginals is unique in the K natalensis. A Chersina angulata has a much taller and triangular pattern of the marginals that is also distinctive for angulates. Kinixys also have a flatter overall shape and most species have flared marginals you won't see in Chersina.

    The starting scute "aerolae" of Kinixys is pretty large in comparison to most tortoises. The scale of that to the new growth gives an indication of how much size it has developed. Your tortoise has aerolae that are still the major part of the whole scute. the growth seams are relatively smaller. ON the plastron you can really see the difference and dramatic delineation of the first year's growth seam. Since the growth seams and overall shell conditions is so relatively pristine, it certainly would indicate a captive raised individual. Also the coloration of the new growth seams come in dark and give it that defined border to each scute. In the wild, in natural sunlight that lightens and becomes less defined. This tortoise has a very striking and defined pattern that shows no wear or sun baking!

    For what it's worth - It seems those who decide such things actually have given nogueyi its own species designation and no longer a subspecies of belliana.

    Kinixys nogueyi does come from a similar climate zone even though it is more coastal west central Africa, it is similar to the more coastal northeast South Africa of Kinixys natalensis. The care would be similar.
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  11. dovijoel

    dovijoel New Member

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    Wow, I really appreciate your detailed answers! Thank you :)
  12. CarolM

    CarolM Well-Known Member

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    Hi There,

    Actually I am not so sure it is an Angulate. The carapace looks a little bit flat to me to be an Angulate. I was going to tag a few names but I see that Mark has already answered you.
  13. Sterant

    Sterant Well-Known Member Platinum Tortoise Club Tortoise Club

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    Mark is correct. Definitely not an angulate.
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  14. Blackdog1714

    Blackdog1714 Well-Known Member

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    Wow the hingebacks get awesome scary looking as adults. Awesome mistake for you. Gotta post photos and keep us updated! Good Luck
  15. William Lee Kohler

    William Lee Kohler Active Member

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    Interesting posts here. Butttt......... I agree with Hingeback ID but do not see the tricuspid identifying beak of a Natal here. Side profile looks a lot like Spekes. C'mon experts where are you?
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