I think I just made a $50 mistake

[Yvonne G]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Substrate is completely a personal choice. Lots of folks swear by coco coir. I hate the stuff! You have to try the different kinds and choose what works for you and your tortoise. I know it's costly to fill up your habitat with a certain type of substrate only to find out you (or your tortoise) don't like it. We're here to give you choices and ideas. What works for me may not work for you. But the choice is yours.

Let's take coco coir as an example (because I don't like it). So many of our members really love the stuff. How would it be if I took that choice away from new members by coming out and bad mouthing it all the time...advising folks not to use that awful stuff. Isn't it better that I just say I tried it and don't like it, but other members swear by it. This gives the new member the option of choice. Try it and see if you like it or not. I think that's all we're saying. You don't like orchid bark, and that's fine. let it go at that.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I think you should quit reading so much emotion into everything your tortoise does and give him a few days to adjust to the change. All tortoises are creatures of habit and it takes them time to get used to any new change, even if its a good change.

@Tom there comes a time when in every way manly acceptable I got say "I love you" for this one POV. It's called 'projection'. People project onto animals as well as other people.

Cypress, orchid bark, coco chunks (I don't use the coir) and soil are good substrates. I know some use Aspen, and it is another semi hardwood 'mulch' of sorts used in rodents housing. What I find with Aspen is it mats to readily when moistened, almost like chunky paper mache'. For very dry set-ups where you will replace it frequently Aspen works, like for rodents. I've never seen Aspen in any form other than what I would call splinters and also as shavings. Cypress is usually larger chip shred like pieces.

If you like Aspen then use it. I have a hard time minding moisture with it.

When I had several indoor Russians I used three sided boxes for them to retreat into. So not exactly a hide, but it was a shelter, and they would use them readily.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

@Tom
Are you planting a garden ? If not .
Everybody can speak their mind without taking shots at Tom . He said what others were thinking or he wouldn't have gotten the "likes " . So now you can speak your minds and so can Tom. Have a great day people .

 

[jaizei]

I get that you're touchy about people questioning your advice, but as I said on the other thread, I'm not going to be baited into an argument. You've had your say, and I'm fine with that.

 

[lisa127]

@Tom
Are you planting a garden ? If not .
Everybody can speak their mind without taking shots at Tom . He said what others were thinking or he wouldn't have gotten the "likes " . So now you can speak your minds and so can Tom. Have a great day people .

Who takes shots at tom?

 

[W Shaw]

Update : after two weeks of him not eating or drinking, freaking out and running away anytime anyone got near the enclosure, I removed the bark. He started eating at the next meal I offered, drank in his soak that evening, and stopped panicking when approached. He wasn't a normal tortoise to begin with, so it's been a setback, but he's headed in the right direction again.

 

[sibi]

Sounds like a cool mix! I'm debating about mixing the existing bark with cypress to lighten it up, but hesitating for a practical non-tortoise reason: If I spend a bunch of money on cypress, mix it with the bark and he still can't burrow, then I'll be throwing out another batch of new substrate and the cost for my simple substrate change will be creeping toward $100. I started with Aspen. Ronan loved it and was thriving in it but it was a little too dry.

So, if he loved Aspen, why don't you just wet it down every now and then. I mean, any substrate can be dry after a while if not wet down.

 

[Pearly]

Update : after two weeks of him not eating or drinking, freaking out and running away anytime anyone got near the enclosure, I removed the bark. He started eating at the next meal I offered, drank in his soak that evening, and stopped panicking when approached. He wasn't a normal tortoise to begin with, so it's been a setback, but he's headed in the right direction again.

I think you've answered your question. Like Yvonne has said, substrate is a personal choice. It has to work for you and your tort, provide healthy environment for our pet. If your tort likes to burrow then it makes sense to give him something to burrow in. If you have a way to keep the heat/humidity at optimal levels, and your tort is growing happy and healthy in aspen, then I'd say: you have found yet another potentially good option for some keepers out there. Glad to hear your Ronan is back to himself now

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I do not believe Tom is touchy at all when someone questions his advice. In fact I think he was quite the gentleman in his reply. I disagree with him frequently, he doesn't care.I personally would have told her how the cow ate the cabbage, I wouldn't have been half as nice as Tom was. After you've been here a few years you get damn sick and tired of newbies asking for advice then arguing against it. If they know so f'ing much why ask for advice??? I think she was very insulting, I've been using orchid bark for well over 10 years, my sister been using it for 30 years. Would we use it the way we do, and RECOMMEND it if it was bad? We are both experienced keepers that use orchid bark, and altho the OP directed her insult at Tom many of us orchid bark users were insulted as well. My sis has 100 or so tortoises, a woman of 30 to 40 years experience, and yet some newbie decides orchid bark is bad, guess my sis never discovered that. That newbie must be smarter and more experienced than my sister, or she would have kept her mouth shut. Why advertise how stupid you are??? This is exactly why I never advise newbies. No matter what we say, most will argue against the advice, their tort doesn't like his substrate. BS....tortoises, especially Russians aren't that smart. Newbies do it the way they want and the tortoise dies. I have a 7 month old box turtle and he burrows to the bottom of the orchid bark, about 8 inches. A little box turtle is really showing up you and your tortoise. Maybe your tortoise just can't dig, this baby burrows......

 

[surfergirl]

One of my russians buried in orchard bark. The smell settles down but helps to control poop odor to me. More earthy smelling as it gets older. easy to clean, takes some tort a few times to push through and get in it but that is great exercise for them. They are brutes enough to whoop it though in the long run. I got the medium orchard bark from pikes nursery. The top of the bark is dry but moist underneath and holds humidity. It is at 56% juat now when i took this pic.

 

[surfergirl]

forgot to mention cypress mulch at home depot is on $ 2.83 a bag right now for a few cubic feet of it

 

[dannylozano10]

forgot to mention cypress mulch at home depot is on $ 2.83 a bag right now for a few cubic feet of it

Is it fine grade by any chance

 

[Sandy Martinez]

Have been searching for orchid bark in san Antonio -- can't find it anywhere. Only small bags like the 1 qt bags -- I would need about 10 bags to fill my enclosure. Have been using cypress mulch -- but can't find fine grade. Its ok but too splintery to me. I'm always worried that when he buries in he'll get stuck in the eye.

 

[Sandy Martinez]

I do not believe Tom is touchy at all when someone questions his advice. In fact I think he was quite the gentleman in his reply. I disagree with him frequently, he doesn't care.I personally would have told her how the cow ate the cabbage, I wouldn't have been half as nice as Tom was. After you've been here a few years you get damn sick and tired of newbies asking for advice then arguing against it. If they know so f'ing much why ask for advice??? I think she was very insulting, I've been using orchid bark for well over 10 years, my sister been using it for 30 years. Would we use it the way we do, and RECOMMEND it if it was bad? We are both experienced keepers that use orchid bark, and altho the OP directed her insult at Tom many of us orchid bark users were insulted as well. My sis has 100 or so tortoises, a woman of 30 to 40 years experience, and yet some newbie decides orchid bark is bad, guess my sis never discovered that. That newbie must be smarter and more experienced than my sister, or she would have kept her mouth shut. Why advertise how stupid you are??? This is exactly why I never advise newbies. No matter what we say, most will argue against the advice, their tort doesn't like his substrate. BS....tortoises, especially Russians aren't that smart. Newbies do it the way they want and the tortoise dies. I have a 7 month old box turtle and he burrows to the bottom of the orchid bark, about 8 inches. A little box turtle is really showing up you and your tortoise. Maybe your tortoise just can't dig, this baby burrows......

I for one value your advise -- I have learned so much. Without your advice what are we left with -- instructions for care from pet store workers? Who suffers from it -- our poor torts. I have learned the hard way until finding this web site and looking to the experienced and well known members for advice. I didn't know where to start when I first got mine and you advised and guided me every step of the way and the learning hasn't stopped. I learn something new everyday here and I Thank You!

 

[dannylozano10]

Have been searching for orchid bark in san Antonio -- can't find it anywhere. Only small bags like the 1 qt bags -- I would need about 10 bags to fill my enclosure. Have been using cypress mulch -- but can't find fine grade. Its ok but too splintery to me. I'm always worried that when he buries in he'll get stuck in the eye.

Yes I know the orchid bark I got from lowes has sooooo many splinters and it has charcoal pieces in it but I took those out so I wouldn't buy that anymore all tho it was what it said it was I just misread

You might have to just get the orchid bark and cypress mulch from lllreptiles that's the only place I found it in bulk that's fine grade

 

[Sandy Martinez]

Its the cypress that I'm always worried about splinters expecially when he buries but have used it since last Jul -- I'm looking for orchid -- where did you find it in bulk?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

My sister in Fresno collects bags of orchid bark. Then I make a 1600 mile round trip to get some from her as there is no such thing in the Willamette Valley. In 10 years I have never found any orchid bark in my part of Oregon, including Portland. We just got a Home Depot and it doesn't carry anything I would use for torts. I am fostering 2 very young Sulcata now, and Pansy the 2 month old is on coir. Don't tell Tom this but I have a real funky set-up (being one handed) but this baby is living in a 2 room closed chamber. I keep the humidity at 80%, that means pouring lots of water, my point...since I started doing Maggie's version of Tom's closed chamber I find the coir kept wet or damp does not get all over everything, I've never seen any in Pansy's eyes, and I am maybe changing my mind about how crappy I always thought coir was.....look at how red this baby is. She's just beautiful.......maybe more red in person...

 

[sibi]

My sister in Fresno collects bags of orchid bark. Then I make a 1600 mile round trip to get some from her as there is no such thing in the Willamette Valley. In 10 years I have never found any orchid bark in my part of Oregon, including Portland. We just got a Home Depot and it doesn't carry anything I would use for torts. I am fostering 2 very young Sulcata now, and Pansy the 2 month old is on coir. Don't tell Tom this but I have a real funky set-up (being one handed) but this baby is living in a 2 room closed chamber. I keep the humidity at 80%, that means pouring lots of water, my point...since I started doing Maggie's version of Tom's closed chamber I find the coir kept wet or damp does not get all over everything, I've never seen any in Pansy's eyes, and I am maybe changing my mind about how crappy I always thought coir was.....look at how red this baby is. She's just beautiful.......maybe more red in person...

OMG,,Maggie, that baby is absolutely beautiful and healthy looking! Are you saying that you have two bedrooms in the house as closed chambers?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

hahaha, no. I took 2 bins and had a neighbor cut hole in them and I ran a pipe between the 2 sides. Both at a steady 90 degrees, one side has a CHE so it's darker and the other side has a MVB. Her water dish and food are on the bright side. She's very active and moves her stuff around daily. On the dark side there are 2 plastic containers with a doorway and filled with wet moss. She puts herself to bed in one hide or the other. But I do have 2 bedrooms full of chelonia, does that count?

 

[sibi]

hahaha, no. I took 2 bins and had a neighbor cut hole in them and I ran a pipe between the 2 sides. Both at a steady 90 degrees, one side has a CHE so it's darker and the other side has a MVB. Her water dish and food are on the bright side. She's very active and moves her stuff around daily. On the dark side there are 2 plastic containers with a doorway and filled with wet moss. She puts herself to bed in one hide or the other. But I do have 2 bedrooms full of chelonia, does that count?

LOL, yeah that counts. But, I , for one, would love to see that setup. Can you get a pic of it for me?