I'm having so much trouble choosing a species. Is this a fair assessment of my options?

XanaZoo

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So I've been researching tortoises for about six months and preparing for my forever friend. I'm so nervous to choose my species though. I'm going to love whichever one I bring home, but I only want one. I'm going to have them for the rest of my life hopefully and I don't want to be disappointed.

Here's what I know. I'm buying from tortstork. Hatching my own will be magical and the most powerful bond I can get. I want a small one. I only live in hot places. Id like to house indoors as much as possible. I keep my house at 75° but obviously the enclosure will be heated and have humidity control.

Since I'm limited by my preselected breeder. My options are the Hermann's tortoise, cherry head, Indian star and maybe Greek.

The Hermann's is the longest lived an the least likely to die. They hibernate which scares the **** outof me. Greeks are easily as easy to care for and there's a possibility I may move to Greece in 5-10 years because I have family there. The colors of the western Hermann's are exceptional and their small size makes them the best for indoor keeping. They are not shy and like to explore but probably don't like scratches and close interaction. Also their diet consists mostly of things I can grow in my yard making them very cheap to feed.

Cherry Heads are colored the most like a painted turtle (my favorite). They can also be orange which is my favorite color.
Their diet will be more expensive to provide but the 50% fruit thing could be cool. I'm a vegetarian and used to have an iguana I would share a meal with every night. It was a great bonding experience. I could eat fruit with my tortoise for breakfast every day. How cool would that be? They apparently like to be touched the most and sometimes sleep crawled under the owner's clothes. They get 10-12 inches and may be tricky to house indoors. Their omnivorous diet and forest habitat makes them kind of similar to eastern box turtles which seem to be among the smartest turtles. I've also heard they're eager to please.

Indian Stars are objectively the worst choice. Delicate, shy, like to hide. Their diet is similar enough to the Hermann's that I can still grow 80%+ of their diet myself. If I raise it diligently from hatchling it may be more tame and outgoing than is normal for their species. Their looks are the biggest selling point. Maybe that's shallow but I want people to ooh and ahh my baby. They live 30-40 years, the shortest of my options. I don't want to outlive my tortoise, I want them to outlive me. I'm 32 and am determined to live to be 100 or die trying. Despite all these drawbacks. I'm unable to stop considering one. Life is too short to not get what you want. A the same time, I have to get what I need and what I need is a faithful beloved chelonian friend to accompany me through this crazy thing called life.

I know someone is going to suggest I get a Burmese star. I'd love one, seems like an ideal compromise but, tortstork doesn't sell them. I have to hatch an egg. If anyone on this forum breeds Burmese stars and would be willing to sell me an egg. Please contact me. I've messaged two breeders to ask for this but received two hard no's.

I'm currently living in Alabama. I have plans to relocate to southern California, or Louisiana, then to leave the country to work at a resort somewhere tropical (I'm a massage therapist, it's a skill you can take anywhere). My family lives in Crete, Greece which is tropical. I may move there in 10 years or so to care for my mother when she gets old.

The dry climate of California may prove bad for the redfoots and stars bur the Herman should be fine. Also I don't want to live there more than 3 years. However in the south all these would fair well outdoors at least half the year. The tropical climate of another country may be too much for a Hermann's but they are tough, and I would be getting a Sicilian which is likely more humidity resistant. Also because I'd like to keep indoors as much as possible, while I keep my house quiet warm and humid living in a temperate zone, if I lived somewhere tropical I'd be more like to run my air conditioning and maybe a dehumidifier, so indoors a Hermann's or star may fair better.

So in summary. Herman's most likely to last the rest of my life, hardest to lose to weather or care taking mistakes, but may have a "no hang" personality.

Cherry Head, possibly the smartest, most likely to tolerate handling, most expensive to feed but can share meals. 30-50 year lifespan may not last a lifetime, but close to it. Best suited to tropics. Reasonably hardy.

Indian star, great to show off, hardest to tame, shortest lifespan, magically alluring enough to defy my rationality. Reasonably cheap to feed. Best suited to indoor living. Probably the most chillin.

In Europe, I may run into trouble importing a herman since they're native and endangered. In south America, I may have trouble importing a cherry head, but mainland tropical countries are not that restrictive with wildlife laws, island nations are the strictest. Indian Star are probably the most likely to be importable as long as I don't go to India.

Sorry for the long post but I'm really overwhelmed with my options. And scared to make the wrong choice.

Each tortoise keeper seems so happy with their choice of tortoise that I can't really take any advice objectively. I guess it just means they're all great.
 

method89

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It sounds like you have a lot of questions to answer that don't involve getting a tortoise before you start thinking about getting a tortoise. They are not really an animal to pack up and move around the world. They require a fairly large space, regardless of species. You need to account for this in all your future dwellings They also need to be quarantined if you are going to take them internationally. There are many more reasons but those are the 2 that came to my head.
 

wellington

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Your plan should be to house it outside as much as possible once it gets to the size of living outside. Both states have weather for outside living with some attention to cold nights and having a heated night box.
Also know there is no real bonding like a dog. A tortoise either will or won't want anything to do with you. Hatching one will not make this happen any more or less.
As for your species choices I have no hands on with any of them so can't help you there.
 

pacific chelonians

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I’m going to suggest cherry heads because they are my specialty I would not really worry about the humidity I live in SoCal and the humidity is high enough NorCal or central cal can be much trickier
 

pacific chelonians

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And when it comes to import status every thing but the star tortoise won’t be a problem because they are cites 2 and 3 but the star are cites 1 witch means they are pretty much impossible to export and import western Easterns and redfoots are all easy I am importing 40 4inch westerns from Europe it’s not a problem
 

Tom

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You've been reading at least some of the wrong stuff and have the wrong ideas about some of this stuff.

Here's what I know. I'm buying from tortstork. Hatching my own will be magical and the most powerful bond I can get.
I don't know why this matters, but okay. Be aware that a lot can go wrong when shipping and hatching babies. You have to do it all correctly, or you will cause problems. Do you have an incubator? After hatching, the baby will need to be kept in a plastic shoe box in something temperature controlled for at least 7-10 days while it absorbs its yolk sac and learns what food is. There is much to learn if you don't want to make all the common errors, and most of what is on YT and FB is all wrong.

And tortoises don't bond to people. Any hatchling is going to be terrified of you for at least two or three years until it gains some size. If you are referring to YOU bonding with the tortoise, well that is all up to your preferences.

I only live in hot places. Id like to house indoors as much as possible. I keep my house at 75° but obviously the enclosure will be heated and have humidity control.
The climate doesn't really matter if you intend to keep it mostly indoors.

Since I'm limited by my preselected breeder. My options are the Hermann's tortoise, cherry head, Indian star and maybe Greek.
Why? Randy is great. Seems like a good dude. I've talked to him on the phone a couple of times and I've got no complaints, but if he doesn't have the species that suits you best, there are other good breeders too. If Randy has earned your business, that is great, but if you find a different species will work better for you, I'd keep an open mind.

The Hermann's is the longest lived an the least likely to die. They hibernate which scares the **** outof me.
This is not correct. No one knows the lifespan of any tortoises species. We've only been captive breeding in large numbers since the 90s, with few notable exceptions. Even to this day, that vast majority of people breeding them start babies all wrong and much too dry, so even our CB babies haven't been given a good start. Our grandchildren's grandchildren won't know the life span of tortoises. There have been some on record at over 180 years old. There was a box turtle in Louisiana that was 182, or older, when it got run over by a car.

Hermanni are not hardier or less likely to die than the other species you are looking at. Cherry heads and greeks are equally hardy, and if housed correctly at the correct temps, Indian stars should be fine too. Just don't let them get cold.

No species has to be hibernated. It is my opinion that species that hibernate in the wild should also be hibernated in captivity, but it is not required. You can keep them up all winter if you want, and it appears to do no harm even after a couple of decades of it. Some of them will fight you on this, but some go along with it just fine.

So I've been researching tortoises for about six months and preparing for my forever friend. Greeks are easily as easy to care for and there's a possibility I may move to Greece in 5-10 years because I have family there.
I think you are going to be sadly disappointed and surprised when you attempt to move your tortoise internationally. I move animals internationally for a living. Its not cheap or easy. Its not possible at all in some cases. Its a romantic notion, but the governments of the world are against you.

The colors of the western Hermann's are exceptional and their small size makes them the best for indoor keeping. They are not shy and like to explore but probably don't like scratches and close interaction. Also their diet consists mostly of things I can grow in my yard making them very cheap to feed.
Westerns are cool. I've wanted to start a group for years, but have no time for anything additional. I have no first hand experience, but I've asked keepers that have them and other species, and I'm told they are more shy and reserved than other common species.

All food for any species can be grown in your yard. Weeds, leaves, and flowers will feed any of these species. Add in some squash leaves, opuntia, grape and mulberry leaves, and you can feed any species well.

Cherry Heads are colored the most like a painted turtle (my favorite). They can also be orange which is my favorite color.
Their diet will be more expensive to provide but the 50% fruit thing could be cool.
50% fruit? More like 10%.

I don't find any species "eager to please" but CH or RF do tend to be less fearful than some other species as adults. As babies, all species are fearful.

Indian Stars are objectively the worst choice. Delicate, shy, like to hide. Their diet is similar enough to the Hermann's that I can still grow 80%+ of their diet myself. If I raise it diligently from hatchling it may be more tame and outgoing than is normal for their species. Their looks are the biggest selling point. Maybe that's shallow but I want people to ooh and ahh my baby. They live 30-40 years, the shortest of my options. I don't want to outlive my tortoise, I want them to outlive me. I'm 32 and am determined to live to be 100 or die trying. Despite all these drawbacks. I'm unable to stop considering one. Life is too short to not get what you want. A the same time, I have to get what I need and what I need is a faithful beloved chelonian friend to accompany me through this crazy thing called life.
No one knows the life span of any tortoise species. They are either making up a number or parroting someone else's made up number. If you don't want shy, don't get an Indian. They will probably react the worse to being moved around.

I know someone is going to suggest I get a Burmese star. I'd love one, seems like an ideal compromise but, tortstork doesn't sell them. I have to hatch an egg. If anyone on this forum breeds Burmese stars and would be willing to sell me an egg. Please contact me. I've messaged two breeders to ask for this but received two hard no's.
There is a good reason they are telling you "no". You should listen. You will be much better off with a well started baby from a good breeder.

The dry climate of California may prove bad for the redfoots and stars bur the Herman should be fine.
This is correct.

However in the south all these would fair well outdoors at least half the year. The tropical climate of another country may be too much for a Hermann's but they are tough, and I would be getting a Sicilian which is likely more humidity resistant. Also because I'd like to keep indoors as much as possible, while I keep my house quiet warm and humid living in a temperate zone, if I lived somewhere tropical I'd be more like to run my air conditioning and maybe a dehumidifier, so indoors a Hermann's or star may fair better.
All of these species will do fine in the south and with some humidity. No need to run a dehumidifier anywhere.

So in summary. Herman's most likely to last the rest of my life, hardest to lose to weather or care taking mistakes, but may have a "no hang" personality.
None of this is correct. Hermanni do not live longer than any of these other species, and all of them are hardy if housed correctly. Hermanni will simply tolerate a temperate climate better than a tropical species, and with less electric heating help from you.

Cherry Head, possibly the smartest, most likely to tolerate handling, most expensive to feed but can share meals. 30-50 year lifespan may not last a lifetime, but close to it. Best suited to tropics. Reasonably hardy.
Not any smarter than the others. CH do tend to tolerate handling well. Not more expensive to feed for most people. Life span info is not correct. Yes on the tropical warm humid weather, and yes they are usually hardy.

Indian star, great to show off, hardest to tame, shortest lifespan, magically alluring enough to defy my rationality. Reasonably cheap to feed. Best suited to indoor living. Probably the most chillin.
Not hard to tame, and they do not have a shorter lifespan. All of these species are about the same to feed. Any of these species will be easy to house indoors in a large closed chamber. Chilln? Not sure what you mean by that. I would phrase it as generally less interested in interaction and attention. Less curious about you and what you are doing.

In Europe, I may run into trouble importing a herman since they're native and endangered. In south America, I may have trouble importing a cherry head, but mainland tropical countries are not that restrictive with wildlife laws, island nations are the strictest. Indian Star are probably the most likely to be importable as long as I don't go to India.
All of them are exceedingly difficult to legally move across any international border.

Sorry for the long post but I'm really overwhelmed with my options. And scared to make the wrong choice.

Each tortoise keeper seems so happy with their choice of tortoise that I can't really take any advice objectively. I guess it just means they're all great.
Its good that you are thinking this through, but realize that almost every source you read for tortoise info is going to be wrong, so "research" is time consuming and not only is it fruitless, it often yields rotten fruit. There is a lot of info on the internet, but that doesn't mean it is good info.

Everyone chooses their species for their own reasons, and will defend those reasons. The best person to listen to in a case like this is someone who has kept all these species, and more, and who has no skin in the game. Someone who isn't trying to sell you anything. Every time I say leopard tortoises or Indian stars are shy, someone who loves and keeps that species will come along and say theirs isn't. Every time I say RFs don't do well in dry climates, someone will come along and say theirs do. So why do I make these assertions? Because I'm speaking in general terms. Because I've seen a lot of tortoises housed a lot of different ways, all over the world, and my assertions generally hold true. Its what I've personally seen over and over again for decades.

You are either going to love any tortoise you get because once its in your hands you will not care about all of this, or you will not love any of them because none of them will live up to the expectations you've formed in your mind from reading all this stuff on the internet. My goal here is to dispel the misinformation, and try to get helpful correct info across, so you can make the best decision. And I am not selling anything.

Questions and conversation are welcome. :)
 

XanaZoo

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AC it comes to import status every thing but the star tortoise won’t be a problem because they are cites 2 and 3 but the star are cites 1 witch means they are pretty much impossible to export and import western Easterns and redfoots are all easy I am importing 40 4inch westerns from Europe it’s not a problem
According to the cites website any captive bred animal listed in appendix one is threaten as an appendix two.
 

pacific chelonians

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According to the cites website any captive bred animal listed in appendix one is threaten as an appendix two.
That is true but like I said very hard good luck getting paperwork granted and there still need to be a quota and there is 0 quota on star tortoises and due to people manipulating that loop hole they really won’t give you paperwork
 

Melymann

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I am not an experienced with any of your concerns. The only thing I can say is I really wanted an instahatch also, but instead ended up with a beautifully started hatchling from tortstork (eastern Hermanns) I really do understand your one and done mentality. There are times I wish I would have done the hatch. Tough decision, but in the end a healthy tort is the goal.
 

gibby

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i have a redfoot it is so curious and friendly im amazed every day . even comes over for a pet sometimes while i clean up enclosure
 

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