I'm not the expert I pretend to be

[Gillian M]

Thanks for posting such a GREAT thread!

 

[saginawhxc]

I feel the exact same way. I'm a novice too, but I've spent HOURS on this site sifting through info. I feel pretty confident about sulcata care, at least, but I hesitate to jump in. Besides, the forum is already full of more knowledgeable people than me

There is two sides to that though. Yes, there are many people here more knowledgeable than you or me, but we can answer the easy crap so they don't waste their time. I cringe a little seeing some of the most experienced here type a novel daily to the same questions over and over and over again...

If somebody comes here and asks if they can feed their tortoise McDonald's, then we can chime in and make the answer clear so others don't have to waste their time.

 

[Speedy-1]

I know how you feel , I usually try to qualify my statements with "this is what has worked for me" or some other sort of disclaimer !

If you ever need an Internet man hug I am here for you Tom.

As long as the rules are strictly observed !

 

[saginawhxc]

This is a great thread and an excellent lesson for me to learn. I've only had my tort a year, but I often try to be an "expert". Sometimes I jump in and say the wrong thing. Great reminder for me not to be stuck up! Thanks for posting!

Many of us here do that. Don't sweat it too much. There are a lot of good people here and we all learn from each other's successes but almost importantly from each other's mistakes too.

That being said... don't be stuck up.

 

[saginawhxc]

I know how you feel , I usually try to qualify my statements with "this is what has worked for me" or some other sort of disclaimer !

As long as the rules are strictly observed !

I tell people that I've never been wrong before, so why should I start now.

 

[Speedy-1]

I tell people that I've never been wrong before, so why should I start now.

Or "I thought I was wrong once , but I must have been mistaken !"

 

[cmacusa3]

Or "I thought I was wrong once , but I must have been mistaken !"

When people ask me if I'm a tort expert I say no "but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night" then I'm covered.

 

[Fredkas]

Just to be clear, I absolutely consider myself a rookie tortoise keeper. I acquired my first tortoise less than a year ago and in that time, thanks to this site, I have learned so much. I personally think my knowledge level is way ahead of the curve for how for how little time I've owned tortoises, but I will be the first to acknowledge that most people who think they know more than others are often wrong.

A member here recently enlightened me on the existence of a Facebook group for Sulcata members, but I was appalled at some of the information flying around there. Some owners weren't bad, some were good, some were obviously members here, but some were giving downright awful advice. The majority of the photos posted are of tortoises that are pyramiding or starting too.

In the couple of weeks I've been a member there I've spent an awful lot of time answering people's questions in the manner we would answer them here. I feel a little unsure about this though. I'm confident of the info, but feel like I haven't earned the right to give advice yet. I feel like my answers give the impression that I have WAY more experience than I actually do. I'm afraid that one of these days someone will challenge my experience and all I will be able to tell them is a guy on the Internet told me how to take care of tortoises. Who am I to tell people that have been raising tortoises for years that they are wrong? What right do I have to claim a level of knowledge that is based almost purely on the experience of those I have never even met?

One of my least favorite types of people are those that claim expertise, but don't have the experience to back it up. Somehow I've become that guy on the subject of tortoises.

Anybody else ever feel the same? How do you handle it? What is the proper approach to handling discussions about tortoises outside of the forum?

Oh my god! you sounds like me! it just i haven't started to give advise to a lot of people. i try to give a hint, but who am i? they keep tort for years although they are pyramid.
You are writting about what i feel and what i hate and don't want to be a person like that. if someone came to me to ask advise, then i throw it all.
Really!!! i feel good i did that! there are at least 2 people (outside this forum) i remembered taking my advise and have no prob with his/her tort until now, one advise is separate the pairs, and he is gratefull. Another person, she had a 1yo stunted sulcata and died, getting a new one and i can see her sulcata had a new groth line within 2 weeks. it feels so good when i see their tort grow healthy.

 

[Fredkas]

If you ever need an Internet man hug I am here for you Tom.

Why we go back to internet man hug lol, where is that pic again @Speedy-1 ?
Well ignore me. Seriously.. i am just can't help myself to post this comment..
Go on discuss the thread topic

*intermezzo...
* man this thread is crazy, i'm sorry @Speedy-1 i dont know you already post the pic above. i just read and reply directly. i haven't read it all yet.

 

[wellington]

Just to be clear, I absolutely consider myself a rookie tortoise keeper. I acquired my first tortoise less than a year ago and in that time, thanks to this site, I have learned so much. I personally think my knowledge level is way ahead of the curve for how for how little time I've owned tortoises, but I will be the first to acknowledge that most people who think they know more than others are often wrong.

A member here recently enlightened me on the existence of a Facebook group for Sulcata members, but I was appalled at some of the information flying around there. Some owners weren't bad, some were good, some were obviously members here, but some were giving downright awful advice. The majority of the photos posted are of tortoises that are pyramiding or starting too.

In the couple of weeks I've been a member there I've spent an awful lot of time answering people's questions in the manner we would answer them here. I feel a little unsure about this though. I'm confident of the info, but feel like I haven't earned the right to give advice yet. I feel like my answers give the impression that I have WAY more experience than I actually do. I'm afraid that one of these days someone will challenge my experience and all I will be able to tell them is a guy on the Internet told me how to take care of tortoises. Who am I to tell people that have been raising tortoises for years that they are wrong? What right do I have to claim a level of knowledge that is based almost purely on the experience of those I have never even met?

One of my least favorite types of people are those that claim expertise, but don't have the experience to back it up. Somehow I've become that guy on the subject of tortoises.

Anybody else ever feel the same? How do you handle it? What is the proper approach to handling discussions about tortoises outside of the forum?

I'm no expert either. However, most things we learn in life isn't from our own experience. Your parents told you fire is hot. Did you have to experience it before you would share that info to your own kid or maybe a friend. Maybe a bad example, but you get my point. We can't all experience all there is in life to know if it's bad or not. We learn from others. Some have experience others don't. None of your teachers experienced the things they taught you. What I have learned here is from members that have experience and back up what they say. If someone calls me experienced I will correct them and let them know that what I learned I learned from here. If you keep letting people think your experienced then your being deceiving. Sharing what you have learned is how everyone has learned. Even the experienced have learned some of their info from others experience not their own.

 

[wellington]

This is a great thread and an excellent lesson for me to learn. I've only had my tort a year, but I often try to be an "expert". Sometimes I jump in and say the wrong thing. Great reminder for me not to be stuck up! Thanks for posting!

When that happens and you know it, that's when I try to apologize. I may not get them all, but when I do see it, that's what I try to do.
There is so much to remember and to which species it's really meant to be for, that it's easy sometimes to get it wrong or get it confused with another species or of what age it should be for.
Some members I notice like to tell everyone about soaking and they get it wrong, mixing hatchlings soaking recommandations with what is recommended for older ones. Usually it's not going to hurt the tort, and usually it will get corrected by another member. So in the end hopefully it works out correctly.

 

[wellington]

What you've described in post number one is exactly how I feel about giving advice on species I don't currently keep. I'm not a RF guy, but I've had them in the past. I did most everything wrong because I was ignorant, but I have somewhat of a feel for keeping the RFs from conversations here and my own limited experience. I frequently see questions posted that I know the answers to, but I'm reluctant to give anything but the most general advice on species that I don't currently keep, or haven't raised from hatchling to adulthood several times.

In these situations, I will always throw out one of those disclaimers that were already mentioned, and I will defer to someone with more first hand experience as long as what they have to say makes sense with what I know. For example: I'm not going to go along with it if someone with lots of experience says a RF will do best in a rain chamber at 65 degrees to simulate the Amazon rainy season.

I've considered jumping on that sulcata FB page that I keep hearing about, but I'm sure I'd be banned pretty quickly. Plus I just don't do FB or any other social media stuff like that. I just do TFO and I argue enough here!!!

I understand your dilemma. All you can do is preface things the right way, be honest about your experience level and do your best. If people don't want the help, then it doesn't matter what you do anyway. If people who have been doing it all wrong, but doing it longer than you want to argue, then argue. Explain to them what you know and what you've learned. Explain why your way is better and their ways isn't. Here's the thing: The truth is on your side. You are right, even though you don't have decades of experience with hundreds of tortoises to back it up. Those people arguing with you will eventually also stumble upon the truth, as I did, if they will open their mind just a little bit. Remember that in the case of sulcatas, you are fighting 30+ years of bad, incorrect info. This battle won't be won easily. This ignorance is well entrenched. I know. I was one of the people repeating and promoting this wrong info, until I figured out it was wrong and didn't work. There is enough evidence right here on this forum to make your case too.

Plus, if you find yourself in a jam, we will help you. I'll PM you my number and you can call or text anytime someone is pressing you with the wrong info. I'll feed you the arguments and answers that you don't already have. I've done this with a few other people already. I feel it is important to get this info out for the benefit of all the tortoises suffering in dry conditions out there in the world. And remember something else: Even if you are not currently reaching the person you are arguing with, your calm, cool and collected, ideas and thoughts ARE reaching other people who are silently reading along. Often the person you are arguing with will come around days, months or years later. I've seen this many times even with top "experts". Like the time Andy Highfield called the humidity thing a "red herring" and compared people who use those methods to people who believe in UFOs. Years later he recanted and said he regretted those remarks. He was ignorant when he made those statements. He just hadn't learned what you already know when he said those things. He knows now, but not until many other people argued with him about it. He had to be told repeatedly by people he respected before he learned, but learn he did, eventually.

This is why I love this guy. He ALWAYS goes above and beyond to help animals and the people that have them. You won't find another that will offer up the kind of help Tom does!

 

[saginawhxc]

This is why I love this guy. He ALWAYS goes above and beyond to help animals and the people that have them. You won't find another that will offer up the kind of help Tom does!

I agree. I am part of the Tom fan club.

 

[wellington]

Oh my god! you sounds like me! it just i haven't started to give advise to a lot of people. i try to give a hint, but who am i? they keep tort for years although they are pyramid.
You are writting about what i feel and what i hate and don't want to be a person like that. if someone came to me to ask advise, then i throw it all.
Really!!! i feel good i did that! there are at least 2 people (outside this forum) i remembered taking my advise and have no prob with his/her tort until now, one advise is separate the pairs, and he is gratefull. Another person, she had a 1yo stunted sulcata and died, getting a new one and i can see her sulcata had a new groth line within 2 weeks. it feels so good when i see their tort grow healthy.

Don't forget. You will see pyramided tortoise from those you see as having torts for years with lots of experience. They are the ones that got all the bad wrong outdated info and that's all they had. They didn't even have the Internet. My first tort I raised is pyramided cuz I listened to the breeder I bought him from for a little over 4 months until I found TFO. Which was still to late to stop it completely.

 

[saginawhxc]

When that happens and you know it, that's when I try to apologize. I may not get them all, but when I do see it, that's what I try to do.
There is so much to remember and to which species it's really meant to be for, that it's easy sometimes to get it wrong or get it confused with another species or of what age it should be for.
Some members I notice like to tell everyone about soaking and they get it wrong, mixing hatchlings soaking recommandations with what is recommended for older ones. Usually it's not going to hurt the tort, and usually it will get corrected by another member. So in the end hopefully it works out correctly.

That is what is great about this site. There are enough of us here that even when you give somebody the wrong advice everybody else can chime in and correct the accidental bad advice.

 

[saginawhxc]

I'm no expert either. However, most things we learn in life isn't from our own experience. Your parents told you fire is hot. Did you have to experience it before you would share that info to your own kid or maybe a friend. Maybe a bad example, but you get my point. We can't all experience all there is in life to know if it's bad or not. We learn from others. Some have experience others don't. None of your teachers experienced the things they taught you. What I have learned here is from members that have experience and back up what they say. If someone calls me experienced I will correct them and let them know that what I learned I learned from here. If you keep letting people think your experienced then your being deceiving. Sharing what you have learned is how everyone has learned. Even the experienced have learned some of their info from others experience not their own.

Another great post on this thread. There has been some good stuff here.

 

[saginawhxc]

Don't forget. You will see pyramided tortoise from those you see as having torts for years with lots of experience. They are the ones that got all the bad wrong outdated info and that's all they had. They didn't even have the Internet. My first tort I raised is pyramided cuz I listened to the breeder I bought him from for a little over 4 months until I found TFO. Which was still to late to stop it completely.

I'm thankful I found TFO after less than a week. I would have saved a bunch of money if I had found it before I bought my tortoise, but who is keeping track of expenses when it comes to torts?

 

[saginawhxc]

From now on I have this to say to people that tell me they have been keeping multiple tortoises together, mixing breeds, or letting their tortoise free roam.

"A lot of people will tell you it's fine and they do it with no problems, but the horror stories are out there and you don't have to look too hard to find them. If I told you I let my two year old daughter ride in the car without a car seat and unbuckled would you be comfortable with that? If I told you I've had no issues and she always arrives safely at her destination? But I know others that do the same? No, even if I argued this, most of us realize that this is unsafe and will only work till something goes wrong. Issues like mixing breeds, keeping multiple tortoises together, or free roaming tortoises are all the same exact thing. They only work till something goes wrong."

 

[TerrapinStation]

I'm thankful I found TFO after less than a week. I would have saved a bunch of money if I had found it before I bought my tortoise, but who is keeping track of expenses when it comes to torts?

I would cringe if I kept track of what I spent on not just torts, but pets in general. But they make me happy so I cannot care about money. I get more enjoyment out of our pets than just about anything else! And sometimes the little critters eat better than I do!

 

[Tom]

From now on I have this to say to people that tell me they have been keeping multiple tortoises together, mixing breeds, or letting their tortoise free roam.

"A lot of people will tell you it's fine and they do it with no problems, but the horror stories are out there and you don't have to look too hard to find them. If I told you I let my two year old daughter ride in the car without a car seat and unbuckled would you be comfortable with that? If I told you I've had no issues and she always arrives safely at her destination? But I know others that do the same? No, even if I argued this, most of us realize that this is unsafe and will only work till something goes wrong. Issues like mixing breeds, keeping multiple tortoises together, or free roaming tortoises are all the same exact thing. They only work till something goes wrong."

Yes. A person can only play russian roulette so many times… Best in my opinion to not play at all.