Inherited mums 40 yr old hermans

T's mum

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hi have had mums tort since last march. He has always lived freely at mums, so have given him the run of our garden too. Had a good summer, he obviously grazes on clover, dandelion pansies & other weeds. He loves most lettuces, but his favourite treat is banana, slugs & worms! I have put him back into mums shed to hibernate as he has always done. I have been checking occasionally, but he seems to be moving around a little in the bottom of the box. Maybe he has always done this. He is on a table, but I am wondering if he is struggling to regulate himself because he is not on the floor? Should I move him down &. Repack him with fresh hay? I am worried about disturbing him. Unfortunately mum has dementia & cant tell me where she used to put the box!! He's just amazing, we love him dearly, and we're desperate not to lose him.
 

Yvonne G

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Welcome! Glad to finally hear from you.

It might be a good idea to place the box on the floor so in case he gets out he can't fall. then, like you suggested, pack hay all around the box. Has it been very cold where he is?
 

T's mum

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Welcome! Glad to finally hear from you.

It might be a good idea to place the box on the floor so in case he gets out he can't fall. then, like you suggested, pack hay all around the box. Has it been very cold where he is?
Hi Yvonne, the box has bubble wrap around it & a wooden lid, with a gap covered with plastic mesh to keep any predators out. He is in a plastic shed, the same one for years. It has gone very cold. Will the temps stay steadier on the floor?
 

JoesMum

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Hello and welcome to another Brit :)

And to another old-timer tort too :)

It isn't unusual for torts to move around a little during hibernation. However, there shouldn't be lots of movement. To hibernate properly temperatures need to be steadily below 10C but above freezing. Ideally around 5C.

I have found this increasingly hard to achieve in the UK as the winters aren't old enough these days. I always used a double box... Joe in a box with straw and then that box in a massive box packed with straw or shredded paper to keep temperatures in the inner box temperatures as stable as possible. I switched to a fridge (a dedicated one for Joe - not my kitchen fridge) as it was easier to regulate.

You MUST weigh your tort if you suspect he's stirring. Your tort can't afford to lose more than 10% bodyeeight during hibernation. If he gets too warm and wakes he will dehydrate fast and get sick.

Your tort has a mainly vegetarian diet. He can't digest sugars properly - they cause digestive and kidney problems - so sweet foods like fruit, pepper, carrot and tomato should only be fed very sparingly and very occasionally. Banana is far too sugary for this species and should not be fed at all.

You might find this thread useful that I put together about how I cater for Joe outdoors
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/
 

T's mum

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Hello and welcome to another Brit :)

And to another old-timer tort too :)

It isn't unusual for torts to move around a little during hibernation. However, there shouldn't be lots of movement. To hibernate properly temperatures need to be steadily below 10C but above freezing. Ideally around 5C.

I have found this increasingly hard to achieve in the UK as the winters aren't old enough these days. I always used a double box... Joe in a box with straw and then that box in a massive box packed with straw or shredded paper to keep temperatures in the inner box temperatures as stable as possible. I switched to a fridge (a dedicated one for Joe - not my kitchen fridge) as it was easier to regulate.

You MUST weigh your tort if you suspect he's stirring. Your tort can't afford to lose more than 10% bodyeeight during hibernation. If he gets too warm and wakes he will dehydrate fast and get sick.

Your tort has a mainly vegetarian diet. He can't digest sugars properly - they cause digestive and kidney problems - so sweet foods like fruit, pepper, carrot and tomato should only be fed very sparingly and very occasionally. Banana is far too sugary for this species and should not be fed at all.

You might find this thread useful that I put together about how I cater for Joe outdoors
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/
Hi Joes mum,

I was hoping you would reply, thank you. I will read the thread. When I first joined the forum in august, I noticed that joe has a very similar life to 'T'. Although he had never been under a lamp with mum. The blue slate worked really well in the garden. He has had a very free life with mum, no bathing, no weighing. In the early days he used to hibernate in the soil at the bottom of the garden & completely disappear until spring! He went into hibernation a bit early really, we didn't realise that our garden goes into shade earlier in October. Do you think it makes any difference to the temps if he is raised, or on the floor? Obviously in the wild he would be on the ground. Mum has never touched him during this time, just waits until he comes to the top of the hay. So should I leave him alone? Or have a look at him & repack him in deeper hay & put the box on the floor in the shed? It is hovering around zero at night at the moment. But he must have done this many times before.
 

JoesMum

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I know of a Greek locally that also hibernates himself every winter in my friend's garden compost heap. He goes down when he is ready and gets up when he is ready.

We have always boxed Joe. We were never brave enough to let him do his own thing.

I would try to double box him if you can. Joe's inner box was a little bigger than him. I pit some kitchen paper in the bottom; if Joe peed the kitchen paper would be wet and I would know that he had to be got up. It only happened once, but better safe than sorry. He had straw in that box with him. I prfer straw over hay as it is less dusty.

Then I got a massive box and packed straw into it tightly. Joe's box went pretty much dead centre in the big box. Should Joe move about, it would mean that he wouldn't end up near an outside edge and be at risk from frost.

I also put the outdoor sensor of an indoor-outdoor thermometer like this one from Amazon in the inner box with Joe which made it easier for me to monitor what was going on in the hibernation box.

As for placement of the box, I wouldn't put the box directly on the floor just to protect from damp. We stood Joe's box on bricks. We also threw a groundsheet over it just in case there was ever a leak in the roof (which did happen once)
 

T's mum

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I know of a Greek locally that also hibernates himself every winter in my friend's garden compost heap. He goes down when he is ready and gets up when he is ready.

We have always boxed Joe. We were never brave enough to let him do his own thing.

I would try to double box him if you can. Joe's inner box was a little bigger than him. I pit some kitchen paper in the bottom; if Joe peed the kitchen paper would be wet and I would know that he had to be got up. It only happened once, but better safe than sorry. He had straw in that box with him. I prfer straw over hay as it is less dusty.

Then I got a massive box and packed straw into it tightly. Joe's box went pretty much dead centre in the big box. Should Joe move about, it would mean that he wouldn't end up near an outside edge and be at risk from frost.

I also put the outdoor sensor of an indoor-outdoor thermometer like this one from Amazon in the inner box with Joe which made it easier for me to monitor what was going on in the hibernation box.

As for placement of the box, I wouldn't put the box directly on the floor just to protect from damp. We stood Joe's box on bricks. We also threw a groundsheet over it just in case there was ever a leak in the roof (which did happen once)
Thank you so much for your reply. I know you know exactly where I'm coming from. I have only felt down in the box to feel where he is. I put newspaper in the bottom. Filled it with dust free hay & placed him in the middle. He is under the newspaper now. I think I will have a peep at him tomorrow & possibly pack some hay around the box inside the bubble wrap & put a thermometer inside with T to see how the temps are doing. I'll leave him on the table for now. I was thinking of getting him up late Feb, as he did go down early. I have
Kept him under a lamp for a few weeks before, he absolutely hates been indoors. I will have to keep him in the conservatory & hope we get the odd sunny spell so he can get outside. I can feel another year without a holiday! I won't tell my husband just yet Will let you know how things go tomorrow.
 

JoesMum

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Don't be bound on time too badly. If it's too cold you will do more harm than good by hauling him up when he's not ready. If he is properly hibernating then his natural torpid state means he burns very few calories, loses little to no weight and comes to no harm. I have had Joe down for 4-5 months in bad winters.

If we get snow in February, or a hard freeze, which is entirely likely then he is better of continuing to hibernate. This is where you need to confident about weight loss. I rarely saw any at all and this was very reassuring that all was well. Handling a hibernating tortoise is like handling a house brick... there's nothing going on. I used to weigh Joe very early in the morning when it was coldest to be absolutely sure I minimised the risk of him stirring though which is probably paranoia on my part :p

As for the outdoor living, my thread explains how I use a mixture of the conservatory for overnight and a lamp in a dog kennel to keep Joe as content outdoors as possible. Not letting Joe out wasn't an option if I wanted things undamaged! He would stomp round the garden for an hour or two and then be much more relaxed back in the conservatory.
 

T's mum

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Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
West midlands
Don't be bound on time too badly. If it's too cold you will do more harm than good by hauling him up when he's not ready. If he is properly hibernating then his natural torpid state means he burns very few calories, loses little to no weight and comes to no harm. I have had Joe down for 4-5 months in bad winters.

If we get snow in February, or a hard freeze, which is entirely likely then he is better of continuing to hibernate. This is where you need to confident about weight loss. I rarely saw any at all and this was very reassuring that all was well. Handling a hibernating tortoise is like handling a house brick... there's nothing going on. I used to weigh Joe very early in the morning when it was coldest to be absolutely sure I minimised the risk of him stirring though which is probably paranoia on my part :p

As for the outdoor living, my thread explains how I use a mixture of the conservatory for overnight and a lamp in a dog kennel to keep Joe as content outdoors as possible. Not letting Joe out wasn't an option if I wanted things undamaged! He would stomp round the garden for an hour or two and then be much more relaxed back in the conservatory.
Ok maybe I will weigh him tomorrow. He was around 1056kg when he went down. He is quite a lot smaller than joe. Fingers crossed
 

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