Is Kilz primer ok?

Tom

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The most time/years will be had from flex sealor marine paint.
Experience has shown this to not be the case. Remember @ZEROPILOT 's experience with the flex seal? The boat paint I used rubbed off in a few months, not years, and those were small sulcatas about 6-10 inches.

The longest lasting coating I have found has been Pond Shield. When applied correctly and generously, it cures into a hard waterproof "plastic" and it holds up well under wet substrate and on the walls with tortoise shells rubbing on it.

@Markw84 also recommend Rustoleum "Counter top paint". I used that on the underside of the lids of a few night boxes and it works beautifully. It doesn't hold up to rubbing in high traffic areas or under tortoise feet, but it works great in areas that aren't walked on or rubbed on constantly. My one complaint is that it makes terrible fumes that take weeks to dissipate. I just ran a fan on it for a couple of weeks before use, and have had no problems. Of course, CA banned it, and we can't get it here anymore. Can't even order it and have it shipped in, just like the flood bulbs.
 

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Experience has shown this to not be the case. Remember @ZEROPILOT 's experience with the flex seal? The boat paint I used rubbed off in a few months, not years, and those were small sulcatas about 6-10 inches.

The longest lasting coating I have found has been Pond Shield. When applied correctly and generously, it cures into a hard waterproof "plastic" and it holds up well under wet substrate and on the walls with tortoise shells rubbing on it.

@Markw84 also recommend Rustoleum "Counter top paint". I used that on the underside of the lids of a few night boxes and it works beautifully. It doesn't hold up to rubbing in high traffic areas or under tortoise feet, but it works great in areas that aren't walked on or rubbed on constantly. My one complaint is that it makes terrible fumes that take weeks to dissipate. I just ran a fan on it for a couple of weeks before use, and have had no problems. Of course, CA banned it, and we can't get it here anymore. Can't even order it and have it shipped in, just like the flood bulbs.
This is your post I am also going by along with my own experience with both! You didn't make it sound like it didn't work and only a few months

(I did this on a big 4x8x4 foot indoor closed chamber build. More than 10 years ago it was $135 for the primer and $150 for the paint. Probably much more than that now. It worked okay and help up to the moisture, but over timer, the paint was rubbed off in all the high traffic areas along the walls and corners where the tortoise carapaces were rubbing.)
I have used flex seal. Maybe Zeropilot didn't do it right, or put on a thick enough coat, I have no clue how he did it. I know I brushed mine on not sprayed and it has sat out in rain, snow and sun for at least 3 winters, still out there now. I don't need others experiences, I have my own on several items actually.
As for the marine paint, I have plenty of experience with that too.
Aside from covering wood with metal or a hard plastic or similar, marine paint and flex seal are good products and not too badly priced, at least when I was buying it. Neither is made to withstand pee, or constant rubbing in the same place on a daily basis, it's not made with tortoises on their minds, or to last forever, but as far as water and humidity, they work great from my own experience.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I brushed it on.
Very thick.
Over formed cement.
The tortoises nails cut it easily and it only lasted about 3 months before chunks started coming off. It was still very pliable and soft. It didn't break down.
It would have been better if the tortoises didn't swim and soak in the pools. But that's why they're there.
My previous failed attempts using fiberglass resin and resin mixed with sand for traction lasted longer. But they all eventually just delaminated from the cement after 9 to 12 months.
 

Markw84

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@Markw84 also recommend Rustoleum "Counter top paint". I used that on the underside of the lids of a few night boxes and it works beautifully. It doesn't hold up to rubbing in high traffic areas or under tortoise feet, but it works great in areas that aren't walked on or rubbed on constantly. My one complaint is that it makes terrible fumes that take weeks to dissipate. I just ran a fan on it for a couple of weeks before use, and have had no problems. Of course, CA banned it, and we can't get it here anymore. Can't even order it and have it shipped in, just like the flood bulbs.
I have used the Rustoleum Countertop for many enclosures prior to my PVC builds. I have 2 older wood with Countertop coating enclosures still in use. It's been 5 years and the bottom of both enclosures still looks new when cleaned. It is in stock and I can buy it today at my local Lowes.

I now only use PVC. However, for a night box for a large tortoise it does not work well for the floor. Expanded PVC is relatively soft and scratches easily and deeply with a large tortoise. For my most recent outdoor night boxes I use an exterior rated plywood and prime, then coat with a good gloss paint. Then I put down horse stall mats. Thick and heavy, they protect the bottom of the night box and are impervious to even the heaviest of tortoises.
 

Tom

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I have used the Rustoleum Countertop for many enclosures prior to my PVC build. I have 2 older wood with Countertop coating enclosures still in use. It's been 5 years and the bottom of both enclosures still looks new when cleaned. It is in stock and I can buy it today at my local Lowes.

I now only use PVC. However, for a night box for a large tortoise it does not work well for the floor. Expanded PVC is relatively soft and scratches easily and deeply with a large tortoise. For my most recent outdoor night boxes I use an exterior rated plywood and prime, then coat with a good gloss paint. Then I put down horse stall mats. Thick and heavy, they protect the bottom of the night box and are impervious to even the heaviest of tortoises.
All of my local stores discontinued the counter top paint and told me they can't sell it in CA anymore. I tried to order it on Amazon and it did the thing that says they can't ship it to my address, just like the light bulbs. I wonder if this is just an L.A. County edict and not all of CA, or maybe your local store just doesn't know about it? Either way stock up! I'll buy a bunch from you!

The regular exterior paint and primer covered by horse stall mats have been working perfectly for me too, but...... I haven't pulled the mats up and looked under them yet. I sealed the holy hell out of every seam and crack, but you know how that goes sometimes...
 

vladimir

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I have used the Rustoleum Countertop for many enclosures prior to my PVC builds. I have 2 older wood with Countertop coating enclosures still in use. It's been 5 years and the bottom of both enclosures still looks new when cleaned. It is in stock and I can buy it today at my local Lowes.

I now only use PVC. However, for a night box for a large tortoise it does not work well for the floor. Expanded PVC is relatively soft and scratches easily and deeply with a large tortoise. For my most recent outdoor night boxes I use an exterior rated plywood and prime, then coat with a good gloss paint. Then I put down horse stall mats. Thick and heavy, they protect the bottom of the night box and are impervious to even the heaviest of tortoises.

Do you put down substrate on top of the horse stall mats in the outdoor night box? had any issues with them urinating inside the box on top of the mats?
 

Tom

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Do you put down substrate on top of the horse stall mats in the outdoor night box? had any issues with them urinating inside the box on top of the mats?
I'm not Mark, but I have put damp orchid bark in my boxes on top of the stall mats. Those nasty tortoises poop and pee in there constantly. No issues for me, but I really don't know what is happening under those mats. No bad smells, and the floor is solid so far.
 

vladimir

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I'm not Mark, but I have put damp orchid bark in my boxes on top of the stall mats. Those nasty tortoises poop and pee in there constantly. No issues for me, but I really don't know what is happening under those mats. No bad smells, and the floor is solid so far.

Thanks Tom, your input is always appreciated!
 

Markw84

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Do you put down substrate on top of the horse stall mats in the outdoor night box? had any issues with them urinating inside the box on top of the mats?
My experience is same as @Tom 's so far. The Galapagos night houses I built that way were in use for one year before I converted the barn stalls for their permanent "night houses" When I took them down to move them, the floors under the mats looked perfect with 17 Galapagos using them for a year. I did have orchid bark on top of the mats that I would wet down with the hose at least one a week.
 
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vladimir

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Thanks for the input. I put down floor underlayment and a plastic dropcloth on the floor before putting the horse mats down:

1696289604183-png.362058


I only current have orchid bark in the back quarter where the sleeping area is, and I notice in the other areas urine will roll off the horse mats onto the plastic underneath. I guess I need to add more substrate to catch the liquids before they get a chance to make it down far enough.

More pics from my project are at https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-an-outdoor-winter-sulcata-shed.204226/post-2080429
 

Markw84

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Thanks for the input. I put down floor underlayment and a plastic dropcloth on the floor before putting the horse mats down:

1696289604183-png.362058


I only current have orchid bark in the back quarter where the sleeping area is, and I notice in the other areas urine will roll off the horse mats onto the plastic underneath. I guess I need to add more substrate to catch the liquids before they get a chance to make it down far enough.

More pics from my project are at https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-an-outdoor-winter-sulcata-shed.204226/post-2080429
I will suggest - I seal and paint everything front and back before it goes into a night box. I would not put bare wood under anything as moisture will get trapped between the matts, or the underlayment no matter what you do. You need to seal the wood.

Here is my build of the night boxes I mentioned in my post above. We are sealing, then painting all the floors, walls, and ceiling front and back prior to assembly. This is for 2, side by side 4x8x4 night houses.

IMG_0437(3).jpg

Because of the extreme weight and that I wanted to take down and move them, I build it in sections to assemble in place...

IMG_0442(3).jpg


Then I put down the stall mats. Floor and 16" up the sides.
IMG_0456(2).jpg

Then the orcid bark and the heating/lighting timers, thermostat, etc.
IMG_0457(3).jpg

Without sealing and painting the plywood underneath the mats, the floor would have quickly begun to rot.
 

vladimir

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Thanks Mark. I had planned on sealing the floors and walls but ran into time constraints with the cold weather. However, I put an additional plywood floor on top of insulation over the actual shed floor, and I plan on pulling the horse mats out as soon as it is warm enough for him to sleep in a normal nightbox outside and painting and sealing everything. If the plywood under the underlayment is damaged I can hopefully replace it fairly easily.

Thanks again!
 
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EppsDynasty

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JUST A TIP..... The purpose of Kilz2 or Kilz is the same as other primers, it is to give a surface that is the best match for the Top Coat to adhere to. The only real difference that Kilz has is a "Stain Sealer." Kilz formula prevents stains from coming "UP" through the primer. Kilz does not really prevent stains from going down through the primer. Meaning Kilz weakness is the top of it, the exact are you are thinking is Kilz strongest point.
Applying primer to raw pieces of wood properly is overlooked by almost all. The raw sheet of Plywood is NOT ready to apply primer to. The sheet is no different than applying paint to anything, it needs to be cleaned. The raw sheet will be full of contaminants Oil, Dust and sometimes even water (a wet sheet). The wood needs to be cleaned with a de-greaser then dried. Tri Sodium Phosphate (TSP) is the most common paint prep chemical. Of course in CA it's banned so it has substitutes. After it has been completely dried, completely- Any moisture left in the wood will "lift" the primer off as it evaporates-it then needs to be wiped down with a "Tack" cloth to remove any stubborn particles. Only then will you get a good bonding of the primer.
Whenever coating/painting preparation, preparation, preparation is the key. Even after the priming is complete it should be prepared for the top coat by wiping down with a tack cloth or micro fiber rag. The more attention paid to making the surfaces as clean as possible the better bond you'll have.
 

vladimir

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@EppsDynasty @Markw84 @Tom

I took out the horse mats and floor underlayments now that it is warmer and Vlad is in his 8x4 box in the front yard. Thankfully no damage had gotten down to the floor but some of the 2x4s I had securing the underlayment to the floor showed liquids had gotten down and caused deterioration.

I'm painting now, and plan to replace the floor underlayment and 2x4s that secured it to the floor. Is it better to use exterior grade 2x4s, or kiln dried 2x4s that I prime and paint before installing?

I plan on installing 3-6" of mulch on top of the horse mats after they're installed, so the wood will be submerged.

Thanks ❤️
 

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@EppsDynasty @Markw84 @Tom

I took out the horse mats and floor underlayments now that it is warmer and Vlad is in his 8x4 box in the front yard. Thankfully no damage had gotten down to the floor but some of the 2x4s I had securing the underlayment to the floor showed liquids had gotten down and caused deterioration.

I'm painting now, and plan to replace the floor underlayment and 2x4s that secured it to the floor. Is it better to use exterior grade 2x4s, or kiln dried 2x4s that I prime and paint before installing?

I plan on installing 3-6" of mulch on top of the horse mats after they're installed, so the wood will be submerged.

Thanks ❤️
pressure treated will always fare better in moist environments or in direct contact with soil
 

EppsDynasty

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@EppsDynasty @Markw84 @Tom

I took out the horse mats and floor underlayments now that it is warmer and Vlad is in his 8x4 box in the front yard. Thankfully no damage had gotten down to the floor but some of the 2x4s I had securing the underlayment to the floor showed liquids had gotten down and caused deterioration.

I'm painting now, and plan to replace the floor underlayment and 2x4s that secured it to the floor. Is it better to use exterior grade 2x4s, or kiln dried 2x4s that I prime and paint before installing?

I plan on installing 3-6" of mulch on top of the horse mats after they're installed, so the wood will be submerged.

Thanks ❤️
Oil Based Primer...This is what you should use for a "stronger" protection against moisture. Oil based is messy and requires more time and materials (You throw away your brushes and rollers after each use). If you use pressure treated make sure they are dry, if they are not your work will be for nothing. Even if you use water based primer make sure the wood is dry or it will not adhere. Use coated "Deck" screws as well so they don't rot over time.
 

Tom

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@EppsDynasty @Markw84 @Tom

I took out the horse mats and floor underlayments now that it is warmer and Vlad is in his 8x4 box in the front yard. Thankfully no damage had gotten down to the floor but some of the 2x4s I had securing the underlayment to the floor showed liquids had gotten down and caused deterioration.

I'm painting now, and plan to replace the floor underlayment and 2x4s that secured it to the floor. Is it better to use exterior grade 2x4s, or kiln dried 2x4s that I prime and paint before installing?

I plan on installing 3-6" of mulch on top of the horse mats after they're installed, so the wood will be submerged.

Thanks ❤️
I use pressure treated wood outside for applications in outdoor enclosures. I would not use it inside a closed heated box.

For interiors on a sulcata box I don't paint or seal at all. I just use plain untreated wood. I use a thin layer of dirt on the bottom and scrape out the poop and mud with a flat head shovel as needed. It never rots. Even medium sulcatas will rub any paint or coating off in short order.
 

EppsDynasty

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I use pressure treated wood outside for applications in outdoor enclosures. I would not use it inside a closed heated box.

For interiors on a sulcata box I don't paint or seal at all. I just use plain untreated wood. I use a thin layer of dirt on the bottom and scrape out the poop and mud with a flat head shovel as needed. It never rots. Even medium sulcatas will rub any paint or coating off in short order.
AGREE
Any paint in the interior will only be an issue, it will rub off, it WILL get all over your tort and possibly the eyes. If the box is inside treated wood is not needed.
 

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