Is my leopard Pardalis Pardalis or Pardalis Babcocki?

Master Luke

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I recently adopted a 1 year old leopard tortoise from my friends and I need some help identifying if she is Pardalis pardalis sp. or Pardalis babcocki sp. Her name is Ila (eye-La)

I have owned other reptiles before including Chinese Water Dragons and Leopard geckos and she seems to be the most outgoing and personable of any reptile I've owned. She grew very comfortable with me after a few days of getting to know me. She likes to be handled and towel dried, and sticks her head out to be scrubbed. Ila does not seem afraid of my cat whatsoever, and won't even withdraw into her shell when Kattegat sticks her nose right up to Ila's face.

She loves exploring her new enclosure, trampling the plants, and sitting in her new big water dish. I feed her Mazuri LS pellets soaked and mixed in with dandelion or lettuce greens, and an edible houseplant, flower or herb (or two) that varies day to day. I even ordered some prickly pear propagations and have them rooting to add to my "salad plant" collection. Right now she is in an enclosure full time but I hope to buy a house in the next few years and build a greenhouse oasis and outdoor pen to make her forever home.

Any and all help identifying her as pardalis pardalis or pardalis babcocki would be greatly appreciated!

IMG-4135.jpgIMG-4136.jpg
 

KarenSoCal

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Never heard of this for leopards.
The PP usually has two dots per scute and freckly skin.
Most now days, are a mix.
Sorry for any confusion...I was referring to plastron differences across all species of tortoise, not just leopards. It's always good to have a plastron photo.

Thanks for having me clarify.
 

wellington

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Sorry for any confusion...I was referring to plastron differences across all species of tortoise, not just leopards. It's always good to have a plastron photo.

Thanks for having me clarify.
I guess I don't understand what you mean.
Some of the Mediterranean species, hermanns for sure, a plastron pic can help show what region the specific species is from. Eastern, Western, I think those are two of their locations.
Leopards a plastron shot will not show anything that I have ever heard of. The carapace and skin is what can show on a leopard if it were a PP or a BP but now I guess they are so mixed that without the double dots and freckles its likely a Bab or mix.
 

Tom

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I recently adopted a 1 year old leopard tortoise from my friends and I need some help identifying if she is Pardalis pardalis sp. or Pardalis babcocki sp. Her name is Ila (eye-La)

I have owned other reptiles before including Chinese Water Dragons and Leopard geckos and she seems to be the most outgoing and personable of any reptile I've owned. She grew very comfortable with me after a few days of getting to know me. She likes to be handled and towel dried, and sticks her head out to be scrubbed. Ila does not seem afraid of my cat whatsoever, and won't even withdraw into her shell when Kattegat sticks her nose right up to Ila's face.

She loves exploring her new enclosure, trampling the plants, and sitting in her new big water dish. I feed her Mazuri LS pellets soaked and mixed in with dandelion or lettuce greens, and an edible houseplant, flower or herb (or two) that varies day to day. I even ordered some prickly pear propagations and have them rooting to add to my "salad plant" collection. Right now she is in an enclosure full time but I hope to buy a house in the next few years and build a greenhouse oasis and outdoor pen to make her forever home.

Any and all help identifying her as pardalis pardalis or pardalis babcocki would be greatly appreciated!

View attachment 347568View attachment 347565
Looks like a mix to me. Most of them are. Here in the US we have been mixing different localities of leopards since the 60's.

Here is the correct care info for you:
 

Master Luke

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Update:

Thank you for the info Tom!

When I read though I began to worry about my humidity and the pyramiding that has already begun on her unfortunately. Although the tortoise tables aren’t recommended I customized a greenhouse to fit over. It keeps the heat and humid air in to maintain very stable parameters for her shell growth moving forward.

She’ll get another upgrade in a year or two when I move.

A0CE4C11-6FF0-4623-8D94-6351B40C86FC.jpeg
 

Master Luke

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@Tom In your opinion do you think this level of pyramiding will cause longterm issues?

To give you a little more information: Her shell is 4"length from the bottom (4.5-5" when measured from above), 3.25" in width and 2.5" height. She weighs in at 290-295 grams. I also think she is 18-20 months old from the information I received from the previous owners.

I know the size of her enclosure isn't ideal, but I plan on upgrading her again as soon as I can.2FAD271C-12DE-4243-872C-DFFD89BF6FEE.jpeg9E3548E6-5B4A-496A-A49A-C68B2E719F2F.jpeg33FC1635-6468-450C-8F63-CAFF9C5FB3F6.jpeg
 

Levi the Leopard

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@Tom In your opinion do you think this level of pyramiding will cause longterm issues?
I'm not Tom, ;) but I do not think the current level of pyramiding will cause any long term issues. It simply looks like the side effect of dry growth and not Metabolic Bone Disease.

Pyramiding from MBD will have long term issues. Cosmetic pyramiding from dry growth, will not.

Obviously we want to raise them in the proper conditions for optimal growth patterns. But sometimes we mess up or stumble upon the correct "how to" too late. In those cases, we still want offer the better living conditions but don't be surprised when the growth pattern is set and you still have a bumpy leopard. Looks like you'll have a bumpy "girl" who will be just fine.
 

Master Luke

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@Team Gomberg

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback!

I'm happy to hear that she likely won't have long term issues. I'm ok with a "bumpy girl" as long as she is happy and healthy!
 

Tom

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Update:

Thank you for the info Tom!

When I read though I began to worry about my humidity and the pyramiding that has already begun on her unfortunately. Although the tortoise tables aren’t recommended I customized a greenhouse to fit over. It keeps the heat and humid air in to maintain very stable parameters for her shell growth moving forward.

She’ll get another upgrade in a year or two when I move.

View attachment 348197
Red bulbs shouldn't be used over tortoises. Use a CHE or RHP on a thermostat for night and ambient heat.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
  3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.
I found it amusing that you have a "Locals Only" sign over a tortoise from a foreign country... I hope your tortoise doesn't read it and take offense. :)
 

Master Luke

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Thank you @Tom !
I am really appreciating everyone help and advice!

I can make most of these switches pretty easily, I just have to swap out the infrared for an incandescent basking bulb, the other bulb in the dual lamp is a CHE. I have heat mats velcrod to the inside walls, but it doesn't look like i'll need them until winter if at all. I also have a smaller CHE on the "cool" side of the enclosure set to 78F to supplement the larger one at night. The controller I have has a dimming setting for the socket I can use for the basking bulb for temperature control, I set this at 95F. After adding the greenhouse my temps and humidity have been very stable. I'm using a reptile fogger for humidity, and have a small HOB aquarium fan on a 1 min on/3min off cycle for air flow.

I have an LED flood light for flowering plant growth in a lamp over the tank for ambient light, I can switch it out for the veg bulb i have for a higher K color.

My birthday is at the end of the month so I am asking for the UV meter you recommended, but I can turn my timer down to fewer hours/day for the UV bulbs. I am using the 18" Zilla T8 tubes, and have two ballasts that are ~8" above the substrate level, so she is within 8-12" of the bulbs when basking.

That sign gets a lot of attention lol! It is a bit ironic because I'm a LI native living in Pittsburgh, and before this I was in Toronto. It's a silly sign for surfers! ...LOCS ONLY ;)
 

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