Is my Russian tortoises shell okay?!

[hollygaucas]

My tortoise, Pickle, has been doing great in his new home but I have just noticed something on his shell.

It almost looks like his shell is drying up?! The temperature varies from 90 degrees F on any normal day in the UK to 100 degrees F on a bright day. When it gets to 100 degrees F I tend to not keep the UV light on as long. I think it might be too warm for him as he keeps hiding under his food.

I have been feeding him red and green peppers, homegrown kale, baby spinach, baby green and red lettuce, chard, courgette, Italian style salad, cuttlebone, tortoise diet fruit and flower (served moist but he doesn’t seem to be eating it that much), and I sprinkle a pinch of calcium supplement on his food weekly.
He always has a bowl of water out for him.

The humidity ranges from 30-40%.

Here is a picture of his shell:



Any feedback would be highly appreciated!

 

[Tom]

Here are some questions and feed back:

• Your humidity is much too low and his carapace is showing the effects. You need some damp substrate, a humid hide and a viv or closed top enclosure.
• Where in the enclosure is the temperature 90-100? There are four temps to know and adjust when needed. Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low. What are your four temps and what equipment are you using to maintain those temps?
• Why does the level of brightness outside affect the temp in your enclosure? Is it because the room temp rises, or because the enclosure is in direct sunlight through a window?
• The diet you are offering is not great. Everything you are feeding is okay as a very small part of a varied diet, but none of those things should be mainstays. And the fruit and flower stuff should be omitted entirely. This are not a fruit eating species. Best diet for them is weeds and leaves of the correct type. This will give your tortoise the high fiber, high calcium diet it needs. The foods you are offering are low in fiber, have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio and some contain high levels of goiterogens. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your staples, but add dandelion greens, cilantro, rocket (Arugula), collard, turnip and mustard greens, carrot tops, celery tops, and more for variety. Adding some soaked and blended grass hay, or some soaked ZooMed Grassland tortoise food, will add some much needed fiber too.

Give these a read through:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[hollygaucas]

Here are some questions and feed back:

• Your humidity is much too low and his carapace is showing the effects. You need some damp substrate, a humid hide and a viv or closed top enclosure.
• Where in the enclosure is the temperature 90-100? There are four temps to know and adjust when needed. Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low. What are your four temps and what equipment are you using to maintain those temps?
• Why does the level of brightness outside affect the temp in your enclosure? Is it because the room temp rises, or because the enclosure is in direct sunlight through a window?
• The diet you are offering is not great. Everything you are feeding is okay as a very small part of a varied diet, but none of those things should be mainstays. And the fruit and flower stuff should be omitted entirely. This are not a fruit eating species. Best diet for them is weeds and leaves of the correct type. This will give your tortoise the high fiber, high calcium diet it needs. The foods you are offering are low in fiber, have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio and some contain high levels of goiterogens. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your staples, but add dandelion greens, cilantro, rocket (Arugula), collard, turnip and mustard greens, carrot tops, celery tops, and more for variety. Adding some soaked and blended grass hay, or some soaked ZooMed Grassland tortoise food, will add some much needed fiber too.

Give these a read through:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Thank you for your reply!

I understand that my humidity is low and I am getting an orchid bark substrate and a humid hide. The enclosure is a closed top enclosure.
I am using a terra-cotta hygrometer to measure the humidity.

The basking temperatures is around 100 degrees F. The middle is 90 degrees F and the cool side is 80 degrees F. The night drop is to 70 degrees F. I am using a terra-cotta thermometer.

The outdoor sunlight affects because the room temperature rises.

He has a varied diet and when I mentioned fruit and flower tortoise diet, they are pellets recommended for RTs.

Thanks for your help and please don’t resist to criticise, I just want what’s best for my tort.

 

[hollygaucas]

I have already read those links.
I also forgot to mention that I must his enclosure 2-3 times a day.

How can I treat or prevent what is happening to his shell and what is happening to his shell?

 

[Tom]

I have already read those links.
I also forgot to mention that I must his enclosure 2-3 times a day.

How can I treat or prevent what is happening to his shell and what is happening to his shell?

Higher humidity, more frequent soaks, and shell spraying will help the carapace to grow smoother.

The higher fiber diet and omitting the fruit will help over all health. Lots of products are marketed for various animals. There are pictures of rabbits and hamsters on bags of cedar chips for "Small Animals", for example. Cedar is literally toxic and will kill a rabbit or small rodent that is housed on it.

 

[hollygaucas]

Higher humidity, more frequent soaks, and shell spraying will help the carapace to grow smoother.

The higher fiber diet and omitting the fruit will help over all health. Lots of products are marketed for various animals. There are pictures of rabbits and hamsters on bags of cedar chips for "Small Animals", for example. Cedar is literally toxic and will kill a rabbit or small rodent that is housed on it.

I will sort out the humidity. He gets soaked about 3 times per week.
Thank you !

 

[Tom]

I will sort out the humidity. He gets soaked about 3 times per week.
Thank you !

I soak babies daily, and if I'm trying to halt pyramiding in progress, I'll soak older ones daily too. Hour long soaks really help to hydrate the carapace.

 

[levycraw]

I was following this thread and had a few questions, Holly, I hope you don't mind.

Regarding humidity, what does it need to be inside the enclosure? and is soaking daily really necessary? We usually do it 2-3 times per week. More like 2 usually as we are all busy and this was our daughters Russian Tort but now we are caring for her. And she absolutely hates it! Hates it! So we usually clean her up with a soft bristle toothbrush and she actually "soaks" for maybe 10-15 mins. We have not sprayed anything down in her enclosure either. We used to keep water in there but she never drank it so we took it out. I've read they don't need water. These are dessert reptiles, correct? So how wet are they getting in the wild? I always wet her food (leaves) so she does get water that way as well.

Thank you!

 

[TechnoCheese]

I was following this thread and had a few questions, Holly, I hope you don't mind.

Regarding humidity, what does it need to be inside the enclosure? and is soaking daily really necessary? We usually do it 2-3 times per week. More like 2 usually as we are all busy and this was our daughters Russian Tort but now we are caring for her. And she absolutely hates it! Hates it! So we usually clean her up with a soft bristle toothbrush and she actually "soaks" for maybe 10-15 mins. We have not sprayed anything down in her enclosure either. We used to keep water in there but she never drank it so we took it out. I've read they don't need water. These are dessert reptiles, correct? So how wet are they getting in the wild? I always wet her food (leaves) so she does get water that way as well.

Thank you!

They are not desert animals.
Is it a baby or an adult? With babies, they need to be soaked every day and high humidity (around 80%). With adults, as long as they have a damp substrate, soaking once a week is enough.
Put the water bowl back in. Russian tortoises usually self soak, and absorb water through their cloaka. Are the sides of the water bowl low enough for it to easily get in and out?
Tortoises usually spend their time in warm, humid burrows, and come out to eat and search for mates. They soak themselves in muddy puddles when they find them too.
Your current soaking routine is great! They usually hate it at first. Is the water staying warm?

 

[TechnoCheese]

I was following this thread and had a few questions, Holly, I hope you don't mind.

Regarding humidity, what does it need to be inside the enclosure? and is soaking daily really necessary? We usually do it 2-3 times per week. More like 2 usually as we are all busy and this was our daughters Russian Tort but now we are caring for her. And she absolutely hates it! Hates it! So we usually clean her up with a soft bristle toothbrush and she actually "soaks" for maybe 10-15 mins. We have not sprayed anything down in her enclosure either. We used to keep water in there but she never drank it so we took it out. I've read they don't need water. These are dessert reptiles, correct? So how wet are they getting in the wild? I always wet her food (leaves) so she does get water that way as well.

Thank you!

Please give these a read-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/
Beginner Mistakes
https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

 

[levycraw]

Hi TechnoCheese! Thank you for your responses!

Her soaks are with warm water and I have to keep changing it out bc it gets cool or cold depending on how long I leave her in there. We've had her about a year now and she is no better in her soaks than she was when we first got her. So I don't think she is ever going to enjoy a soak. But for me, its beneficial. 1) she usually poops 2 or 3 times in there (which is less poop/pee in the enclosure) and I get to clean her up. Her substrate is soil and play sand, with about a 70/30 mix, respectively. sometimes its 80/20. The soil usually sits on the top and the sand underneath so she doesn't get sand in her nostrils and eyes.

I do not spray her substrate down either. Not sure if I should be doing that. Some forums say yes, others say no. She takes in a fair amount of water with her food as I always run it under the faucet and then put the wet leaves for her to eat. We feed only when she goes to her feeding spot. I don't let food sit out to and wither and wilt. Hre eating spot is on the 2nd story of her enclosure and she knows to go up there and she will be fed. Its really cute, actually.

Should I be spraying the substrate down and if so, how regularly? Or should it only be sprayed in the areas she go to sleep in? She has 2 places to "park" for the evening. She will go there herself and then I know she's done sunning for the day. That bulb is on 12-16 hours a day and she will move around in it if she wants to shade part of her body and soak the other parts or she'll have her entire body in the light/warmth. So she self moderates her exposure.

Thank you again.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Hi TechnoCheese! Thank you for your responses!

Her soaks are with warm water and I have to keep changing it out bc it gets cool or cold depending on how long I leave her in there. We've had her about a year now and she is no better in her soaks than she was when we first got her. So I don't think she is ever going to enjoy a soak. But for me, its beneficial. 1) she usually poops 2 or 3 times in there (which is less poop/pee in the enclosure) and I get to clean her up. Her substrate is soil and play sand, with about a 70/30 mix, respectively. sometimes its 80/20. The soil usually sits on the top and the sand underneath so she doesn't get sand in her nostrils and eyes.

I do not spray her substrate down either. Not sure if I should be doing that. Some forums say yes, others say no. She takes in a fair amount of water with her food as I always run it under the faucet and then put the wet leaves for her to eat. We feed only when she goes to her feeding spot. I don't let food sit out to and wither and wilt. Hre eating spot is on the 2nd story of her enclosure and she knows to go up there and she will be fed. Its really cute, actually.

Should I be spraying the substrate down and if so, how regularly? Or should it only be sprayed in the areas she go to sleep in? She has 2 places to "park" for the evening. She will go there herself and then I know she's done sunning for the day. That bulb is on 12-16 hours a day and she will move around in it if she wants to shade part of her body and soak the other parts or she'll have her entire body in the light/warmth. So she self moderates her exposure.

Thank you again.

You should spray her enclosure seeing as there is no harm in it.
Next time you change the substrate, I would exclude the sand.
Glad to have helped

 

[levycraw]

I am about to change it. Can I ask why no sand at all? I actually like it because when I "scoop" out pee and poop in between substarte changes, it acts sort of like cat litter and the pee clumps better and is easier to remove. I've seen so many differing opinion on using sand. But all that use sand, its in a small amount like I do it. Mostly soil, small amount of sand. Thanks you!!!

 

[TechnoCheese]

I am about to change it. Can I ask why no sand at all? I actually like it because when I "scoop" out pee and poop in between substarte changes, it acts sort of like cat litter and the pee clumps better and is easier to remove. I've seen so many differing opinion on using sand. But all that use sand, its in a small amount like I do it. Mostly soil, small amount of sand. Thanks you!!!

Even in small amounts, sand is undigestible and causes impactions, so even when they take a little nibble of the substrate or their food falls into it, it increases the risk of a blockage.Russians like to burrow, so even when you just have sand at the bottom they will get to it. It gets all in their eyes, noses, rubs against their skin, etc.
I have found that a lot of forums have incorrect information, like “tortoises should always be kept dry” and “pyramiding is caused by protein”. I have found that tortoise forum has the most accurate information, so I would just stick with us
You can never ask too many questions, so if anything ever seems off to you, don’t hesitate to inquire about it

 

[TechnoCheese]

A good choice of substrate is peat moss, coco coir, fine grade orchid bark, and cypress mulch. Orchid bark is super great, and I like peat moss because you can find 3 cubic feet for 10 dollars!

 

[levycraw]

Even in small amounts, sand is undigestible and causes impactions, so even when they take a little nibble of the substrate or their food falls into it, it increases the risk of a blockage.Russians like to burrow, so even when you just have sand at the bottom they will get to it. It gets all in their eyes, noses, rubs against their skin, etc.
I have found that a lot of forums have incorrect information, like “tortoises should always be kept dry” and “pyramiding is caused by protein”. I have found that tortoise forum has the most accurate information, so I would just stick with us
You can never ask too many questions, so if anything ever seems off to you, don’t hesitate to inquire about it

 

[levycraw]

Even in small amounts, sand is undigestible and causes impactions, so even when they take a little nibble of the substrate or their food falls into it, it increases the risk of a blockage.Russians like to burrow, so even when you just have sand at the bottom they will get to it. It gets all in their eyes, noses, rubs against their skin, etc.
I have found that a lot of forums have incorrect information, like “tortoises should always be kept dry” and “pyramiding is caused by protein”. I have found that tortoise forum has the most accurate information, so I would just stick with us
You can never ask too many questions, so if anything ever seems off to you, don’t hesitate to inquire about it

Thank you for your help. I'll change her substrate. I don't want the sand to harm her.