Is this even legal?! Wtf

Tom

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Are there exceptions for specimens owned before the laws were passed?

That occurred to me as a possibility, but I don't know....

Jamie
No. No exceptions. They are "property of the state".

I'm not happy about any of this. They are an awesome species, and I think that people all over the world should be allowed to buy, or at least be given for free, captive bred specimens. Can some A-hole abuse such a system and take babies from the wild. Yes. Of course. They could do that right now. There is plenty of precedent to show that that is not likely to happen. So many other animals can be bought and sold, bred, and legally collected with proper licensing and permits. To not allow this species to be bred because someone might do something unscrupulous or illegal, is a terrible slippery slope that we should all want to avoid. "Thought Police" and "Pre-Crime" should remain subjects of science fiction movies, and not be a basis for actual policy.
 

mark1

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Can some A-hole abuse such a system and take babies from the wild. Yes. Of course. They could do that right now.........................................................….To not allow this species to be bred because someone might do something unscrupulous or illegal, is a terrible slippery slope that we should all want to avoid. "Thought Police" and "Pre-Crime" should remain subjects of science fiction movies, and not be a basis for actual policy.

it's not science fiction , it's not some A-hole and a couple babies ....... it's more along the lines of 8000 fly river turtles , $400,000 worth pennsylvania wood turtles , $200,000 worth of florida box turtles , 10,000 radiated tortoises , $550,000 worth of spotted , diamondback and box turtles ....... $100,000 worth of alligator snapping turtles , $530,000 worth of diamondback terrapins , the list is endless , i can provide names if you have any doubts , the only reason any of these people were caught is because they tried to ship them internationally and violated federal laws ....... what you won't find , at least i doubt , is trafficked desert tortoises , or bog turtles , or sea turtles in the united states ........
if you allow the general public to breed , you have to allow the sale of what they produce , or allow the release of what they produce ........ allowing release is just a totally bad idea ..... allowing them in the pet trade opens them up to what i wrote above ......... my personal feelings on wildlife and animal laws have nothing to do with the logic of them ........
 

turtlesteve

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My opinion is that the only real logic involved is the state is being lazy and wants it to be easy to prosecute. It is quite possible to prove in court that animals either were or were not captive bred, it just requires the state or DNR or whomever is prosecuting to actually put some effort in. States would rather just criminalize everything because it makes the case a slam dunk. In makes sense from their perspective because they lack resources, but this is how we lose our freedoms one step at a time...

Edit: sorry this hit a nerve... bill working it's way through in SC right now that criminalizes almost anything related to species native in the state, and fails to exclude captive bred.
 
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mark1

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I live in a state where my turtles are protected , i'm required to keep records of what I got , tell them every year what I have , where they came from , where they go , and micro-chip them ………. if I buy a turtle that is regulated in my state from an unregulated state , and I have , those records begin with me , that turtle very easily could be wild caught , could've been caught by my house , sent to florida and sold back to me .....there is no telling for sure where it came from , proving it's wild caught , I personally haven't a clue how that could be done ????? in unregulated states they are no more required to have the history of a turtle they sell than a pet shop is required to know or have proof of the history of a red eared slider or goldfish they are selling …..

south Carolina turtle laws make every wild population of turtles in the united states less safe , at least they did the last time I looked into them ……….. not speaking on the laws proposed , but better laws are definitely needed , it'll either be before they are needed or after the fact , I assure you the eastern box turtle population in south Carolina will become threatened , it's inevitable …… hopefully there are groups in south Carolina to fight for a common sense compromise ……. don't know how laws in my state came about but ohio laws make it financially unprofitable to sell native species , keeping them is more inconvenient than keeping non-native turtles , personally I don't mind the inconvenience , I firsthand seen the reason behind it ………
 

VegasJeff

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In my state, I've read they don't want captive desert tortoises released into the wild for fear of diseases being introduced to the wild population.

I've actually identified my tortoise as being a Sonoran which is from the other side of the Colorado river. I can't sell him but maybe I'll let someone rehome him for a nice adoption fee someday. ;)
 

Tom

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In my state, I've read they don't want captive desert tortoises released into the wild for fear of diseases being introduced to the wild population.

I've actually identified my tortoise as being a Sonoran which is from the other side of the Colorado river. I can't sell him but maybe I'll let someone rehome him for a nice adoption fee someday. ;)
CB animals should never be released by pet owners. This could have devastating consequences for wild populations. I'm all for repopulating the wild with CB tortoises, but some serious biosecurity protocols must be followed along with lots and lots of diagnostic testing over several months.

Please do not try to charge an adoption fee for a DT. This is against the law and will likely land you in hot water and also make the rest of us look bad. One of the beautiful things about this species is that they are free. No profit in it for anyone. They are kept, bred, and cared for purely for love of the species.
 

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