Is this normal for a 3 toe box turtle?

SW156XA

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Is is normal for the upper and normal shell to be so far apart? I do not see this in my other box turtle (Eastern Box turtle).

This turtle was born in 2018 and as today, weight 64g. The Straight Carapace Length is 67mm.

Picture taken 13 April 2022 is attached to the thread.

Thanks
 

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Yvonne G

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Turtle is slightly deformed from living indoors without the necessary diet essentials*, UVB and care.

*malnutrition
 
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SW156XA

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Yvonne,

Thanks for your response. Could you please elaborate further why you believe he is slightly deformed? I am always willing to learn.

Although not shown in the picture, there is UVB bulb which is on 12 hours per day, and which I replace every six months.

He has access to a bowl of water at all times. He mostly eats ReptoMin mini sticks. I have offered him fruits which he eats, but so far, he refuses vegetables, leaves and flowers.

He has access to a cuttlebone at all times, and I sprinkle ReptoCal powder on his fruits and vegetables twice a week.

I used to soak him in a separate container for the first few years, and he lived in a humid environment like the EBT when he was a hatchling (he lived in moist cypress mulch)

I take him at during the spring and summer so can forage in the garden and receive natural light several times a week for 30 minutes. I do not leave him outside full time yet because of his small size.

I do not hibernate him during the winter.

I have attached the EBT that I have had for several years. She was 200 g when I got her, and now she is 489 g and lives outside full time. She had the same setup as the three toe tortoise.

I have attached another picture of the turtle taken 05 May 2021.

Any advise you have I would appreciate. I have a Greek tortoise that I raised as a yearling and the EBT that I received as a sub adult.
 

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jeff kushner

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Welcome SW! Thanks for posting the pics, you wouldn't believe how many folks show up and tell us about their little guy but forget a pic is worth 1000 words! LOL

I'd suggest that you take some time and read some of the stuff posted here. There are some very talented people here so you've hit the gold mine of info! The care sheets at the top of each folder will answer all of your "care questions" and if my memory is working this morning, you'll also see how your guy was affected by incorrect care at some point.

jeff
 

SW156XA

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Thanks for your suggestion Jeff.
The turtle is now outside (see attached pictures)
 

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TeamZissou

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Yvonne,

Thanks for your response. Could you please elaborate further why you believe he is slightly deformed? I am always willing to learn.

Although not shown in the picture, there is UVB bulb which is on 12 hours per day, and which I replace every six months.

He has access to a bowl of water at all times. He mostly eats ReptoMin mini sticks. I have offered him fruits which he eats, but so far, he refuses vegetables, leaves and flowers.

He has access to a cuttlebone at all times, and I sprinkle ReptoCal powder on his fruits and vegetables twice a week.

I used to soak him in a separate container for the first few years, and he lived in a humid environment like the EBT when he was a hatchling (he lived in moist cypress mulch)

I take him at during the spring and summer so can forage in the garden and receive natural light several times a week for 30 minutes. I do not leave him outside full time yet because of his small size.

I do not hibernate him during the winter.

I have attached the EBT that I have had for several years. She was 200 g when I got her, and now she is 489 g and lives outside full time. She had the same setup as the three toe tortoise.

I have attached another picture of the turtle taken 05 May 2021.

Any advise you have I would appreciate. I have a Greek tortoise that I raised as a yearling and the EBT that I received as a sub adult.

Your turtle may also be deformed due to malnutrition. Box turtles do best eating quite a bit of protein in the form of live food. Have you had the turtle since 2018, and has it eaten only fruit the entire time? Your food list doesn't reference any live food such as earth worms, which they love. 64 g at four years old is quite undersized.

The enclosure humidity is may also be too low, which can also contribute to the deformed shell.

While you may have a UV bulb and change it regularly, it may not be positioned at the correct height to produce a zone of UVB with the correct UV index (UVI). It is impossible to tell what the UVI is without a Solarmeter 6.5. This would be like trying to measure temperature without a thermometer. Your bulb is most likely the wrong strength and is set too high. Turtles and tortoises need a UVI of around 3.0 to effectively produce vitamin D and metabolize calcium.

My guess is that your turtle may also have low vitamin A. I suggest buying some Rep-Cal Herptivite supplement. Put some of the supplement on a favorite food item 2-3 times per week. There are many supplements on the market, but Rep-Cal Herptivite is the safest supplement to avoid vitamin A overdose. Raising it slowly with Herptivite is the best way to go rather than getting a jab at the vet.
 

SW156XA

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Thanks for your reply and suggestions.


Since 2018, he is eats mostly ReptoMin mini sticks. He ignores vegetables. I fed him fruits sparingly.

Since he is now outside in a pen, he should be able to catch his own live food. I will supplement the food with fruits and vegetables.
 

Rynan

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Am I jumping the gun if I say this is metabolic bone disease possibly caused by calcium imbalance?
 

Angela & Taco

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I wouldn't assume he's catching his own live food (unless you see him hunting). My EBT is terrible at hunting the many escaped worms that live in his indoor enclosure! If you have earthworms in your yard, I'd recommend putting them in front of him at meal times, or you can buy them from pet stores/bait shops or online.

Regarding his chow, do you soak it? The protein content looks pretty good. I use Mazuri and Omega One brands (these came recommended to me). It might be worth switching up the brand every now and then for variety. I found the following two articles helpful in planning a balanced diet.



In general I do:
  • 1 T chow, soaked in water
  • 1 tsp veggies (squash, peppers, sweet potatoes, etc.)
  • Leafy greens, chopped small (about 1–2 square inches)
All mixed together, topped with a couple of berries and/or nightcrawlers. Mixing veggies in with the chow can help if he's avoiding specific foods.

Does he munch on the cuttlebone? I've read that some adult box turtles will ignore them, and others will devour them. That's good for keeping the beak trim as well. That coupled with the powder calcium supplement should be plenty.
 

SW156XA

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Angela and Taco,

Thanks for your comment.

He caught and ate a woodlouse (pill bug, roly poly) that I placed in his habitat, so I know he can hunt for himself.

There are many woodlouse, spiders, slugs and worms in the garden where is currently living.

I have never soaked his Reptomin sticks. He breaks them into pieces and eats them.

Yes, he loves cuttlebones. He always has access to them

I add calcium powder to his vegetables and fruits.
 

Angela & Taco

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Angela and Taco,

Thanks for your comment.

He caught and ate a woodlouse (pill bug, roly poly) that I placed in his habitat, so I know he can hunt for himself.

There are many woodlouse, spiders, slugs and worms in the garden where is currently living.

I have never soaked his Reptomin sticks. He breaks them into pieces and eats them.

Yes, he loves cuttlebones. He always has access to them

I add calcium powder to his vegetables and fruits.
Nice! His instincts are way better than my turtle's. :)
 

TeamZissou

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Am I jumping the gun if I say this is metabolic bone disease possibly caused by calcium imbalance?

It most likely is MBD. It shows up differently in turtles vs. tortoises. In tortoises, we usually see a dip in the top of the shell, whereas in turtles the marginal scutes turn up. There are a few photos on these pages:


 

SW156XA

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Thanks for the links to the articles. I compared the photos to the turtle, and it appears that MBD is what he has. Luckily, it is at the early stage.

Corrective action has been taken so that the MBD should not progress any further.
 

Sue Ann

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Thanks for the links to the articles. I compared the photos to the turtle, and it appears that MBD is what he has. Luckily, it is at the early stage.

Corrective action has been taken so that the MBD should not progress any further.
Congratulations to your positive attitude! Many people have come here for help and then become defensive when told what needs to be done to help their tort to lead a healthy life.
I’m very inspired by your willingness to adjust to the positive suggestions given to you.
Welcome to the Forum!
 

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