Is this sleeping position normal? **also new tortoise mom, so any tips/suggestions welcomed!!

[littledudesmama143]

Hello fellow sulcata tortoise owners 🐢

This may be a very repeated question, but i NEED to know. I've been losing sleep because of it!! I recently became a new tortoise owner after this cute little dude kind of just fell into my lap and I've been loving every second of it. Well, almost every second. See, I wasn't exactly planning on becoming an owner of a sulcata but a family member of mine took them in and the responsibility kind of just became mine. Not that I'm complaining, I just want to make sure I'm giving this Dude as much as he needs and doing it properly. I've done endless research, bought hundreds worth of tortoise things/necessities, he has essentially become my full time job.

So my problem is that I'm worried about how this little guy is sleeping and if I'm doing the right things. I've read that tortoises tend to have the most oddest sleeping positions, but I've yet to see an image of one like mine. What he does is he'll sleep with his head propped up onto the wall, like it'll look like he's choking due to the way his head is resting between the wall and his shell! To me, it just looks super uncomfortable and downright dangerous. But every time I try to move him, he always ends up just scooting back to the same position. It's incredibly frustrating because I can't sleep thinking I'll wake up to a very heartbreaking situation. So about every 30 min to an hour, I'll wake up and check on him to see if he's still breathing. Sometimes he'll sleep normally with his little head and arms sprawled out but this seems to be a position he loves to go to.

I'm worried that it might be his enclosure. The family member of mine had kept him in a small plastic tub and he was constantly trying to climb out. My natural assumption was that he needed more space so I had ordered this 39.4x24 wooden tortoise house off amazon and just recently moved him in yesterday evening. He's still trying to climb up the walls though. This morning for the first time, my mom found him upside down, which I could only assume was from climbing the walls again and that he had made himself upright when climbing and fell back. Thankfully his substrate is very soft and a little deep so his shell was unscathed. It still scared me really bad as he was also under his heat lamp. Luckily, my dad had seen him about 20 minutes prior and said he was right side up so it couldn't have been more than 25 minutes but still, I watched him like a hawk all day for any changes in his behavior/appetite. Right after though, he was still the same little dude but I'm still going to keep an eye on that. I feel like he was maybe trying to get back to this sleeping position again, I'm not sure. But I also feel like he may be stressed out by the space if he's still trying to climb the walls.

I take him out as much as I can during the day, but I also have a uvb light bulb and heat bulb for him since he is indoors with me. I've been giving him soaks every other day, he's not a hatchling but he's definitely not an adult, he's about 6-8 inches. I'm trying to figure out his diet and he seems to be picky but he's still eating and I give him fresh water every day or if it gets dirty. He has a calcium block but he doesn't really touch it so I've been sneaking some calcium powder on his romaine, his favorite. His poops and urates look normal. He loves head rubs/massages. I got him a pretty good sized hide while still keeping his little makeshift one that he seemed to like and I just switched him to a fine coconut substrate that has been able to hold more humidity than his last one. Although, I don't have a heating pad for his hide. I wasn't sure if I should get it since he might want an area to cool down from the heat lamp. I still need to get more things that I feel like might help with this situation, like little wooden bridges, a small tortoise ball thing he can eat some greens out of, and I was thinking maybe some pebbles to surround his water dish or slate. As well as this realistic desert wallpaper to cover the boring walls, small garden beds to grow his own grass or microgreens, and maybe some fake plants to liven it up a bit more. (fake plants, I'm still very much on the fence about that though, I'm worried he might try to eat it) But all this for visual and mental stimulation. I'm really trying to give this guy the best life as possible but I'm worried that he's stressed out and that this sleeping position may be a sign of that. My dad and I are planning on fixing up our backyard and building him another enclosure out there to give him more space, but it's going to take awhile. I also live in Arizona and we're approaching that 110 degree weather soon, so I'm still going to keep this wooden one to bring him in on days it's too hot. Please help me, I'm very open to hearing any thoughts/opinions and would love to receive feedback on what I may be doing wrong or what I should continue to do. As well as tips/suggestions. I'm also trying to find him a veterinarian for a check up and to get some advice from too. If you read this whole entire thing, thank you so much. I really appreciate you hanging in there, hearing my worries and I hope to hear back from any of you. God bless you tortoise friends!!

 

[Tom]

Hello fellow sulcata tortoise owners 🐢

This may be a very repeated question, but i NEED to know. I've been losing sleep because of it!! I recently became a new tortoise owner after this cute little dude kind of just fell into my lap and I've been loving every second of it. Well, almost every second. See, I wasn't exactly planning on becoming an owner of a sulcata but a family member of mine took them in and the responsibility kind of just became mine. Not that I'm complaining, I just want to make sure I'm giving this Dude as much as he needs and doing it properly. I've done endless research, bought hundreds worth of tortoise things/necessities, he has essentially become my full time job.

So my problem is that I'm worried about how this little guy is sleeping and if I'm doing the right things. I've read that tortoises tend to have the most oddest sleeping positions, but I've yet to see an image of one like mine. What he does is he'll sleep with his head propped up onto the wall, like it'll look like he's choking due to the way his head is resting between the wall and his shell! To me, it just looks super uncomfortable and downright dangerous. But every time I try to move him, he always ends up just scooting back to the same position. It's incredibly frustrating because I can't sleep thinking I'll wake up to a very heartbreaking situation. So about every 30 min to an hour, I'll wake up and check on him to see if he's still breathing. Sometimes he'll sleep normally with his little head and arms sprawled out but this seems to be a position he loves to go to.

I'm worried that it might be his enclosure. The family member of mine had kept him in a small plastic tub and he was constantly trying to climb out. My natural assumption was that he needed more space so I had ordered this 39.4x24 wooden tortoise house off amazon and just recently moved him in yesterday evening. He's still trying to climb up the walls though. This morning for the first time, my mom found him upside down, which I could only assume was from climbing the walls again and that he had made himself upright when climbing and fell back. Thankfully his substrate is very soft and a little deep so his shell was unscathed. It still scared me really bad as he was also under his heat lamp. Luckily, my dad had seen him about 20 minutes prior and said he was right side up so it couldn't have been more than 25 minutes but still, I watched him like a hawk all day for any changes in his behavior/appetite. Right after though, he was still the same little dude but I'm still going to keep an eye on that. I feel like he was maybe trying to get back to this sleeping position again, I'm not sure. But I also feel like he may be stressed out by the space if he's still trying to climb the walls.

I take him out as much as I can during the day, but I also have a uvb light bulb and heat bulb for him since he is indoors with me. I've been giving him soaks every other day, he's not a hatchling but he's definitely not an adult, he's about 6-8 inches. I'm trying to figure out his diet and he seems to be picky but he's still eating and I give him fresh water every day or if it gets dirty. He has a calcium block but he doesn't really touch it so I've been sneaking some calcium powder on his romaine, his favorite. His poops and urates look normal. He loves head rubs/massages. I got him a pretty good sized hide while still keeping his little makeshift one that he seemed to like and I just switched him to a fine coconut substrate that has been able to hold more humidity than his last one. Although, I don't have a heating pad for his hide. I wasn't sure if I should get it since he might want an area to cool down from the heat lamp. I still need to get more things that I feel like might help with this situation, like little wooden bridges, a small tortoise ball thing he can eat some greens out of, and I was thinking maybe some pebbles to surround his water dish or slate. As well as this realistic desert wallpaper to cover the boring walls, small garden beds to grow his own grass or microgreens, and maybe some fake plants to liven it up a bit more. (fake plants, I'm still very much on the fence about that though, I'm worried he might try to eat it) But all this for visual and mental stimulation. I'm really trying to give this guy the best life as possible but I'm worried that he's stressed out and that this sleeping position may be a sign of that. My dad and I are planning on fixing up our backyard and building him another enclosure out there to give him more space, but it's going to take awhile. I also live in Arizona and we're approaching that 110 degree weather soon, so I'm still going to keep this wooden one to bring him in on days it's too hot. Please help me, I'm very open to hearing any thoughts/opinions and would love to receive feedback on what I may be doing wrong or what I should continue to do. As well as tips/suggestions. I'm also trying to find him a veterinarian for a check up and to get some advice from too. If you read this whole entire thing, thank you so much. I really appreciate you hanging in there, hearing my worries and I hope to hear back from any of you. God bless you tortoise friends!!

Hello and welcome. I'm glad you found us, and your little one will be too.

Here is what you need to know: Almost all of the research you have done has been on the wrong care info. That is because almost all the care info for this species is all wrong. For example, your enclosure is not suitable for any tortoise of any size or species. Red bulbs should never be used. You probably were sold the wrong UV bulb from the pet store.

Here is the correct care info:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

More here, including a heating and lighting breakdown at the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Levi the Leopard]

To answer your original question, the sleeping position pictured (with his head against the wall, neck stretched out) is completely fine. He's trying to absorb as much warmth as he can and that specific position is helping him do that.

I'm happy to hear that you've taken on the role as his primary caregiver. Sounds to me like you are invested; that's great! It's true what Tom says though. So much information regarding tortoise care is inaccurate. It can be hard to determine who to listen to and what info to follow when faced with so much conflicting advice.
On one hand you have books of information that have been in publication for decades and on the other hand you have a random guy on the internet (no offense @Tom ) saying the complete opposite. So, what do you do?

Well, you said you are researcher. I am, too. So, I encourage you to do what I did when I started my tortoise keeping journey 11 years ago.
Look at the results produced by the various methods. When you find results you like, learn how they were achieved and then follow that.
I dug through the TFO threads and read over and over again how Tom's method of raising sulcata and leopard tortoises was producing smooth shells. Not only were the tortoises in his care growing this way, but EVERYONE else who followed the same method, had the same results. Fast growing, smooth shelled, hearty eaters! When I looked at the tortoises being raised in table tops, small open tanks on a dry bedding and without soaks, I saw small, stunted, bumpy tortoises and MANY that had passed away at small sizes. I heard over and over again (especially from the tortoise keepers in my turtle club) that: "it's just normal for these babies to die" or "it must be part of their genetics". I don't think so! Not when SO many tortoises are THRIVING when raised in different conditions. So, I chose to follow Tom's advice and my 11 year old leopard tortoise has benefitted from that.

If you look into it, you'll see the same thing I did. Or, save yourself some time and just believe me LOL 🤣 But seriously, read through Tom's thread posted above and make the changes needed to raise your sulcata like he raises his. In 3 years time you'll have a mini tank and for many years to come you'll have a happy, healthy shell covered friend.

Wishing you the best we are here to help you and your tortoise on the journey

 

[littledudesmama143]

Hello and welcome. I'm glad you found us, and your little one will be too.

Here is what you need to know: Almost all of the research you have done has been on the wrong care info. That is because almost all the care info for this species is all wrong. For example, your enclosure is not suitable for any tortoise of any size or species. Red bulbs should never be used. You probably were sold the wrong UV bulb from the pet store.

Here is the correct care info:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

More here, including a heating and lighting breakdown at the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you so much Tom for responding to my post. You have no idea how grateful I am with the insight you've provided. I've already started taking notes on the first thread link and will do the same for the second.

After I've finished looking through your threads, is it okay if I reach out with any questions I may have? From IXOYE's response and the replies on your threads, I see that many trust in your methods and I would love to have a smooth shelled, healthy tortoise as well. Knowing myself, I just might have a few more questions for clarification purposes. I've already started to have some just from pages 1 and 2 on the PDF that your friend Will made from the first post.

Again, thank you for the wisdom. Dude and I are highly appreciative! (Dude is my sulcata's name) Hope you have a great day/night!!

 

[littledudesmama143]

To answer your original question, the sleeping position pictured (with his head against the wall, neck stretched out) is completely fine. He's trying to absorb as much warmth as he can and that specific position is helping him do that.

I'm happy to hear that you've taken on the role as his primary caregiver. Sounds to me like you are invested; that's great! It's true what Tom says though. So much information regarding tortoise care is inaccurate. It can be hard to determine who to listen to and what info to follow when faced with so much conflicting advice.
On one hand you have books of information that have been in publication for decades and on the other hand you have a random guy on the internet (no offense @Tom ) saying the complete opposite. So, what do you do?

Well, you said you are researcher. I am, too. So, I encourage you to do what I did when I started my tortoise keeping journey 11 years ago.
Look at the results produced by the various methods. When you find results you like, learn how they were achieved and then follow that.
I dug through the TFO threads and read over and over again how Tom's method of raising sulcata and leopard tortoises was producing smooth shells. Not only were the tortoises in his care growing this way, but EVERYONE else who followed the same method, had the same results. Fast growing, smooth shelled, hearty eaters! When I looked at the tortoises being raised in table tops, small open tanks on a dry bedding and without soaks, I saw small, stunted, bumpy tortoises and MANY that had passed away at small sizes. I heard over and over again (especially from the tortoise keepers in my turtle club) that: "it's just normal for these babies to die" or "it must be part of their genetics". I don't think so! Not when SO many tortoises are THRIVING when raised in different conditions. So, I chose to follow Tom's advice and my 11 year old leopard tortoise has benefitted from that.

If you look into it, you'll see the same thing I did. Or, save yourself some time and just believe me LOL 🤣 But seriously, read through Tom's thread posted above and make the changes needed to raise your sulcata like he raises his. In 3 years time you'll have a mini tank and for many years to come you'll have a happy, healthy shell covered friend.

Wishing you the best we are here to help you and your tortoise on the journey

Thank you IXOYE for the response! About Dude's odd sleeping position, I'm so relieved to hear that. I've been having trouble sleeping because I'll get up almost every hour just to check if he's still breathing. It's so disappointing to know that almost all info, even published info (?!?), is unreliable. At the same time, it makes sense a lot of it is untrustworthy because so much of what I was finding was contradicting the other. Like fruits, one owner or site would say that it'd be okay to give to them in moderation as a treat, while another said absolutely not!

I feel confident in the threads that have been provided to me, seeing how many years of great care have been put into them. So I think I'll stick with you and the many others who received Tom's thoughtfully well-put knowledge and follow through with that. I'm so happy to have found all of you. I feel like I can finally move forward a bit with Dude's care and making sure he's living as comfortably as can be. Thanks so much again, looking forward to the future with this little Dude and you guys by my side!

 

[wellington]

Thank you so much Tom for responding to my post. You have no idea how grateful I am with the insight you've provided. I've already started taking notes on the first thread link and will do the same for the second.

After I've finished looking through your threads, is it okay if I reach out with any questions I may have? From IXOYE's response and the replies on your threads, I see that many trust in your methods and I would love to have a smooth shelled, healthy tortoise as well. Knowing myself, I just might have a few more questions for clarification purposes. I've already started to have some just from pages 1 and 2 on the PDF that your friend Will made from the first post.

Again, thank you for the wisdom. Dude and I are highly appreciative! (Dude is my sulcata's name) Hope you have a great day/night!!

I'm not Tom, but I know him well enough to say, he welcomes any questions you may have. We all do. That's why most of us are here, to help people so they can enjoy a healthy long lived tortoise friend.
You won't go wrong following the info you get on this forum.

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much Tom for responding to my post. You have no idea how grateful I am with the insight you've provided. I've already started taking notes on the first thread link and will do the same for the second.

After I've finished looking through your threads, is it okay if I reach out with any questions I may have? From IXOYE's response and the replies on your threads, I see that many trust in your methods and I would love to have a smooth shelled, healthy tortoise as well. Knowing myself, I just might have a few more questions for clarification purposes. I've already started to have some just from pages 1 and 2 on the PDF that your friend Will made from the first post.

Again, thank you for the wisdom. Dude and I are highly appreciative! (Dude is my sulcata's name) Hope you have a great day/night!!

We are all here to talk tortoises. Your questions are welcome, and they will fuel the conversation. Please ask as many as you want.

 

[Pák]

If you want to see some "normal" tortoise sleeping positions check this thread.

Sleeping positions

how big is he? Sapphire is probably 20 years at least. But he's only around 5 or so inches long and wide. He hasn't grown since I got him but his shell did heal. He was maybe 4 or 5 years and wasn't in good shape. I decided not to send him back and demand my money back just take my chances in...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Like fruits,

I like to point out that store bought produce is VERY different than the fruits that ripen, naturally in the great outdoors. I hear the sugar levels in fruits are much higher before ripening. And since that's when most get harvested to be shipped to market, they are unnaturally higher in sugars.

I think I'll stick with you and the many others who received Tom's thoughtfully well-put knowledge and follow through with that. I'm so happy to have found all of you.

I'm so happy to hear you welcomed our advice. So many people come on here with "I have questions, help me" and then get mad when we try to do the very thing they asked for because it wasn't what they wanted to hear.

you guys by my side!

Yes!