Is this soil safe for my redfoot

Hotsause

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I’m redoing my enclosure and am trying to use just dirt instead coco and reptibark. This was the most organic type no bullshit added I could find at Home Depot. If anyone knows if this would be harmful to my tort please let me know.
 

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Tom

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I’m redoing my enclosure and am trying to use just dirt instead coco and reptibark. This was the most organic type no bullshit added I could find at Home Depot. If anyone knows if this would be harmful to my tort please let me know.
No it is not safe. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. There is no way to know what is in it and it could be toxic. It is made from composted yard waste. It could be oleander clippings, or lawn clippings with pesticides on it. The people making the soil do not intend for small animals to live on it in closed enclosures.

That particular type says perlite on the label. Perlite will almost certainly be eaten and it is deadly to tortoises. Orchid bark (aka repti-bark) is the best substrate for RFs. it can be kept damp on the lower layers and dry on the top layers which helps keep humidity higher, but avoids the typical shell rot that comes from wet substrate.
 

TammyJ

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That's right. Definitely some harmful stuff in that. Is it an outdoor or indoor enclosure and how big is it? What species of tortoise?
 

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Home Depot sells bags of ORCHID BARK.
It's what I've used in my indoors enclosures. It's inexpensive and long lasting and an excellent way to retain humidity
Get the pure Orchid bark. Not the one with "added" stuff.
 

EricW

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I am not advocating for use of this soil, but I did want to clarify toxic plants. Most toxins in plants do break down and if properly composted, oleander leaves should not be of concern. The anerobic process in composting breaks the toxin down. By the time a commercially made compost is bought, it should be safe. Many think that the toxin in plants stay permanently in the soil, but it does break down.

I am aware of this due to my other hobby of gardening. The concerns with things like disease, herbicides, pH, and other properties of the plants that may be found in mulch, compost, etc. is a topic I have spend quite a bit of time on. Things like plastic, etc. have been a concern for me as I also intermingle edible foods for the table amongst my landscape and not in controlled raised garden beds.

In agreeance to not use this soil, my largest concern with "yard waste" would be what impurities are in it such as plastics, rubber, or other trash. Yard waste is usually full of things that get tossed in those yard bags, such as batteries, plastics, metals, dog poop bags, etc. If you have ever bought mulch and seen the "trash" in it, that is also in these soils. The large pieces are sifted out, but the very small particles do not.

Some sources on the topic of toxins from oleander breaking down in compost:
 

Tom

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Most toxins in plants do break down and if properly composted...
Your post is good info and I agree with what you are saying, BUT... The above sentence is my point of contention. I have bought soil in a bag and used it before of the same brand the OP was inquiring about. I had a couple of large 4x8 foot outdoor planters that I was using to grow tortoise food and also let babies out for some sunning and grazing on occasion. I used a mix of my native dirt and Kelloggs soil. The very first time I put babies out there, I saw one dip its head and take a bite. There were green growing plants all around, but this baby grabbed something off the ground. Upon close examination, I saw that it was some sort of semi-composted plant material, so I snatched it right out of the baby's mouth. It was jacaranda. The area where I grew up had lots of jacaranda and I used to play with the little flowers when I was a kid. Its a tree that I know and recognize. There are no jacaranda trees where I live now. They can't survive. Too cold in winter and too hot in summer. The jacaranda was in the "composted" soil, and it clearly wasn't properly composted.

And that is my point. There is no way to know what is in that bag. I think it was Mark or ZP that posted a link to a YT video of a soil making company explaining all the weird stuff you've never heard of or thought of that they put in the soil to give it the consistencies and physical properties they are looking for. The manufactures do not intend for small animals to be living on it.
 

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Your post is good info and I agree with what you are saying, BUT... The above sentence is my point of contention. I have bought soil in a bag and used it before of the same brand the OP was inquiring about. I had a couple of large 4x8 foot outdoor planters that I was using to grow tortoise food and also let babies out for some sunning and grazing on occasion. I used a mix of my native dirt and Kelloggs soil. The very first time I put babies out there, I saw one dip its head and take a bite. There were green growing plants all around, but this baby grabbed something off the ground. Upon close examination, I saw that it was some sort of semi-composted plant material, so I snatched it right out of the baby's mouth. It was jacaranda. The area where I grew up had lots of jacaranda and I used to play with the little flowers when I was a kid. Its a tree that I know and recognize. There are no jacaranda trees where I live now. They can't survive. Too cold in winter and too hot in summer. The jacaranda was in the "composted" soil, and it clearly wasn't properly composted.

And that is my point. There is no way to know what is in that bag. I think it was Mark or ZP that posted a link to a YT video of a soil making company explaining all the weird stuff you've never heard of or thought of that they put in the soil to give it the consistencies and physical properties they are looking for. The manufactures do not intend for small animals to be living on it.
Jacaranda's are so pretty, from a distance =). Messy. I get it Tom, but didn't want folks to think toxins stay around and are going to poison their vegetables or to never use mulch or compost in their landscape (free from where their tortoise goes). Lots of garden myths out there, like using pine straw (pine needles) as mulch will increase the acidity of soil, which is not true. When broken down by the microbes, it is pH neutral.
 

Tom

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Jacaranda's are so pretty, from a distance =). Messy. I get it Tom, but didn't want folks to think toxins stay around and are going to poison their vegetables or to never use mulch or compost in their landscape (free from where their tortoise goes). Lots of garden myths out there, like using pine straw (pine needles) as mulch will increase the acidity of soil, which is not true. When broken down by the microbes, it is pH neutral.
Accuracy is important. I've been wrong many times over the years and clarification is good.

I understand that plant toxins break down when/if properly composted. My opinion on the matter is formed because I've seen many instances of soil that was not fully broken down, plastic, glass, Styrofoam, and other bits of trash, as well as all the other bizarre "filler" stuff they add in.

I now make my own soil and compost and I know exactly what is in it.
 

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On a similar line of thought. Not long ago
Accuracy is important. I've been wrong many times over the years and clarification is good.

I understand that plant toxins break down when/if properly composted. My opinion on the matter is formed because I've seen many instances of soil that was not fully broken down, plastic, glass, Styrofoam, and other bits of trash, as well as all the other bizarre "filler" stuff they add in.

I now make my own soil and compost and I know exactly what is in it.
It reminds me of a post I made a few years back about a few bags of cypress mulch I got to refresh my primary tortoise enclosure. The same pure cypress mulch from the same hardware store I get it from time after time. Only this time there was steel wire. Steel shards and plastic bits mixed in visibly inside one of the bags.
It wouldn't hurt anything to still use it as mulch. But in my case it was going to be used as a tortoise substrate. And that's where the issue was.
I still use the same mulch but now I dump each individual bag into my wheelbarrow and hand sift it out.
(I've never found anything else in it)
Due diligence and caution need to be used to protect our animals from their own lack of it.
 

jaizei

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On a similar line of thought. Not long ago

It reminds me of a post I made a few years back about a few bags of cypress mulch I got to refresh my primary tortoise enclosure. The same pure cypress mulch from the same hardware store I get it from time after time. Only this time there was steel wire. Steel shards and plastic bits mixed in visibly inside one of the bags.
It wouldn't hurt anything to still use it as mulch. But in my case it was going to be used as a tortoise substrate. And that's where the issue was.
I still use the same mulch but now I dump each individual bag into my wheelbarrow and hand sift it out.
(I've never found anything else in it)
Due diligence and caution need to be used to protect our animals from their own lack of it.


My thought is a simple one:
Since there are other, fantastic and inexpensive options out there that are just as easy to obtain....
Why risk anything?

you don't see the contradiction?

and even when theres not misc debris included idk if cypress mulch is ever 'pure'. like the sasquatch, i've never seen it. every bag i've ever seen says 'blend', and lists 'other forest products' on the back.
 

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you don't see the contradiction?

and even when theres not misc debris included idk if cypress mulch is ever 'pure'. like the sasquatch, i've never seen it. every bag i've ever seen says 'blend', and lists 'other forest products' on the back.
No.
Because in the case of the mulch, I've found no other easily obtained option.
Just other brands of mulch. And none other that claims to be pure cypress.
 

COmtnLady

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Why do you want to go with soil? The coco coir and orchid bark are proven to be healthy for tortoise enclosures. They have a track record of excellence. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I can't tell you how many times I've bought a commercial potting soil (even "quality" ones like Miracle Gro) and had "volunteer" plants sprout up next to the ones I wanted to grow. I've also had problems with mushrooms growing from purchased soils.

If you keep it damp enough for a red foot, you will have all sorts of fungus/mildew problems. And that's not even considering what not-quite composted things are lurking.

My grandmother was a hard-core organic gardener way back when it wasn't even popular. She would compost all the scraps and removed plants, the yard clippings (that she knew hadn't been sprayed or adulterated), and mix in various manures from the farm. Then, before she would use this wonderful compost with unimpeachable origins, she would build a big bon fire, put batches of it into a huge metal barrel they had, and set that in the fire. She would roll the barrel and use a pitchfork to stir it, cooking it to kill off any spoors or insects and such, just to make sure it was the best it could be. Then it was used in the garden and flower beds, not in contained cages for critters that can't get away from some environmental thing that isn't healthy for them. Commercial/bagged soil isn't treated half as well as my grandmother's was. Why would you even want to use soil?
 
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zolasmum

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Why do you want to go with soil? The coco coir and orchid bark are proven to be healthy for tortoise enclosures. They have a track record of excellence. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I can't tell you how many times I've bought a commercial potting soil (even "quality" ones like Miracle Gro) and had "volunteer" plants sprout up next to the ones I wanted to grow. I've also had problems with mushrooms growing from purchased soils.

If you keep it damp enough for a red foot, you will have all sorts of fungus/mildew problems. And that's not even considering what not-quite composted things are lurking.

My grandmother was a hard-core organic gardener way back when it wasn't even popular. She would compost all the scraps and removed plants, the yard clippings (that she knew hadn't been sprayed or adulterated), and mix in various manures from the farm. Then, before she would use this wonderful compost with unimpeachable origins, she would build a big bon fire, put batches of it into a huge metal barrel they had, and set that in the fire. She would roll the barrel and use a pitchfork to stir it, cooking it to kill off any spoors or insects and such, just to make sure it was the best it could be. Then it was used in the garden and flower beds, not in contained cages for critters that can't get away from some environmental thing that isn't healthy for them. Commercial/bagged soil isn't treated half as well as my grandmother's was. Why would you even want to use soil?
Wow- what an impressive grandmother she must have been ! Her vegetables and flowers must have been amazing!
Angie
 

EricW

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I can't tell you how many times I've bought a commercial potting soil (even "quality" ones like Miracle Gro) and had "volunteer" plants sprout up next to the ones I wanted to grow. I've also had problems with mushrooms growing from purchased soils.
The mushrooms growing from the purchased soil is a good thing. If I purchased soil and mushrooms grew, it confirms I have bought a bioactive soil. Mushrooms for the most part should be encouraging. Maybe not in your tortoise enclosure in your home, but outside, bring it on. If the soil, compost, or mulch did not have fungus/mushrooms, then it wasn't bioactive. Either way, it will quickly get fungus when put outside, in the yard, or potted plants are introduced.
 

EricW

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Unless they happen to be one of the many deadly toxic species and your animal has access to it.
Can't get away from it outside, especially in the south, unless I want to lay down a lot of herbicide which would kill everything. I have so much fungus and different kinds in the yard, there is no way around it. Fungus is always among us, if not, good luck. Anything introduced to your yard can bring that toxic fungus, a human, dog, a bird, new plant from the store, mulch, rock, etc.

You may have it already, just never "fruited."
 

Tom

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Can't get away from it outside, especially in the south, unless I want to lay down a lot of herbicide which would kill everything. I have so much fungus and different kinds in the yard, there is no way around it. Fungus is always among us, if not, good luck. Anything introduced to your yard can bring that toxic fungus, a human, dog, a bird, new plant from the store, mulch, rock, etc.

You may have it already, just never "fruited."
Agreed. It is everywhere here too. Every June I have to pull a dozen or so new shrooms off my lawn before the dogs go out. I nearly lost a dog from it one time. In the event that one pops up in a tortoise enclosure, I remove it immediately.

Years ago, I looked into wild shrooms as a supplemental tortoise food, and realized fairly quickly that even practiced mycologists sometimes have trouble telling one from another. Many look very similar, with one being harmless and edible, and its doppelgänger being deadly toxic. The one my dog ate made him go into convulsions, and luckily, he vomited and survived.

Again, one more reason to not use bought-in-a-bag soil in a tortoise enclosure. I do use soil and soil amendments form the store in my planters where I grow tortoise food, but not inside my enclosures where the tortoises can get to it.
 

EricW

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Agreed. It is everywhere here too. Every June I have to pull a dozen or so new shrooms off my lawn before the dogs go out. I nearly lost a dog from it one time. In the event that one pops up in a tortoise enclosure, I remove it immediately.

Years ago, I looked into wild shrooms as a supplemental tortoise food, and realized fairly quickly that even practiced mycologists sometimes have trouble telling one from another. Many look very similar, with one being harmless and edible, and its doppelgänger being deadly toxic. The one my dog ate made him go into convulsions, and luckily, he vomited and survived.

Again, one more reason to not use bought-in-a-bag soil in a tortoise enclosure. I do use soil and soil amendments form the store in my planters where I grow tortoise food, but not inside my enclosures where the tortoises can get to it.
Yeah, I don't bother with figuring out what is edible or not on mushrooms. And if I eat wild ones, I wait for the first sucker to eat it and wait a bit before I try lol.
 

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