Just How Long Can Summer Estivation Last for Outdoor Russians?

[Ruexiki]

Hello all! This is my first post. I have learned a lot from the forums. I adopted my adult Russian tortoise this spring and I live in Southwest USA, very hot desert environment. He lives in an outdoor enclosure in my backyard.

In June, when the weather got above 100 degrees he went into hiding one night and I have not seen him for over a month! It's now end of July. I don't believe he escaped as the enclosure is built to prevent escape, and my yard is sealed off anyway and I have not seen him gotten out. I have tried digging for him under his hide where I last saw him, but can't find him after digging 6-8 inches. He may also possibly have dug himself under a plant shrub he likes to sleep under, however it was not possible for me to dig under the plant roots. I am hoping he is down there. I still make sure there is water everyday, and there are many plants in the enclosure for him to eat if he does decide to wander out, though I have not seen him out yet despite checking early mornings and later evenings when it is cool. It has rained a couple times this summer and I thought for sure I'd see him the following mornings or evenings, but no luck yet.

I have read all about summer estivation however cannot find exactly just how long they can stay under. I've read on other threads that they might stay buried from June to October for the entire summer! What has been your experience for those who have outdoor-living Russian tortoises in hot & arid climates? How deep can they dig? All I can do now is wait until he hopefully comes out in the Fall, but some reassurance would be very helpful! Thanks so much!!!

 

[Tom]

When I had Russians outdoors, I dug them up, if needed, every single night and had them sleep in their safe quarters. Head count, every night.

Russians are known escape artists and very creative about it. I would go find your tortoise and make sure you still have a tortoise.

To avoid this problem going forward, make an underground retreat that stays cooler than surface temps, and your tortoise shouldn't go into aestivation. I'm in the desert too. Temps are 100+ here from June through September too. Its 105 outside right now. Mine never aestivated. None of my species do.

 

[Ruexiki]

When I had Russians outdoors, I dug them up, if needed, every single night and had them sleep in their safe quarters. Head count, every night.

Russians are known escape artists and very creative about it. I would go find your tortoise and make sure you still have a tortoise.

To avoid this problem going forward, make an underground retreat that stays cooler than surface temps, and your tortoise shouldn't go into aestivation. I'm in the desert too. Temps are 100+ here from June through September too. Its 105 outside right now. Mine never aestivated. None of my species do.

Thank you for your reply!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Did you manage to dig your tortoise up?

 

[Ruexiki]

Did you manage to dig your tortoise up?

No, I tried digging under his hide but didn't find him. And the 2nd place I think he's under is under a flower bush and there are lots of roots so I couldn't dig under. I've read that Russians like to bury themselves under roots of plants that make it hard to find them. Do you know how deep can they dig?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Mine doesn't dig much. He just shimmers down and his shell is always a little visible. Maybe @Tom can answar your question. If I were you I would try to find him. I try to prevent estivation and dig my tortoise up every night and put him to his shelter.

 

[Ruexiki]

Mine doesn't dig much. He just shimmers down and his shell is always a little visible. Maybe @Tom can answar your question. If I were you I would try to find him. I try to prevent estivation and dig my tortoise up every night and put him to his shelter. What kind

Mine doesn't dig much. He just shimmers down and his shell is always a little visible. Maybe @Tom can answar your question. If I were you I would try to find him. I try to prevent estivation and dig my tortoise up every night and put him to his shelter.

Thanks for your answer. Prior to this thread, I have been instructed to allow him to engage in their natural behaviors, much as possible, and solely living outside: digging under his hide, brumation etc, including estivation if they feel natural to do so… However I see different owners have various preferences on winter/summer care. Do you mean you put yours inside every night or what kind of shelter do you mean?

 

[Ruexiki]

Thank you for your reply!

Hi Tom may you please clarify

When I had Russians outdoors, I dug them up, if needed, every single night and had them sleep in their safe quarters. Head count, every night.

Russians are known escape artists and very creative about it. I would go find your tortoise and make sure you still have a tortoise.

To avoid this problem going forward, make an underground retreat that stays cooler than surface temps, and your tortoise shouldn't go into aestivation. I'm in the desert too. Temps are 100+ here from June through September too. Its 105 outside right now. Mine never aestivated. None of my species do.

Hi Tom may you please clarify what type of “quarters” you had set up for your Russians each night indoor or outdoors? Did they sleep in it each night all year?

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom may you please clarify

Hi Tom may you please clarify what type of “quarters” you had set up for your Russians each night indoor or outdoors? Did they sleep in it each night all year?

Summer daytime high here are typically over 100 degrees. I made a semi-underground shelter for them. I put a radiant heat panel on the top of the lid so I could give them a little night heat in spring and fall.







Nothing beats going underground for temperature stability, but a simple insulated night box like the one in this thread will work just fine too:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Do you know how deep can they dig?

They typically only dig down a few inches. In extreme weather, hot or cold, I've seen 18 inches, but that is rare. Deeper than this is certainly possible, but I've never seen or heard of that.

Thanks for your answer. Prior to this thread, I have been instructed to allow him to engage in their natural behaviors, much as possible, and solely living outside: digging under his hide, brumation etc, including estivation if they feel natural to do so… However I see different owners have various preferences on winter/summer care. Do you mean you put yours inside every night or what kind of shelter do you mean?

Who gave you those instructions? How's that working out for you? Emulating some parts of the natural world is a good idea. Other parts of their lives need to be managed in a captive environment. There is a lot of bad tortoise care info out in the world. Its hard to know who to listen to sometimes. Please feel free to ask questions. Make us explain why we make the assertions we make.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Do you mean you put yours inside every night or what kind of shelter do you mean?

Happy birthday! Yes, I put mine indoors every night in his indoor enclosure. Others like Tom have outdoor shelters, but still search their tortoises every night and lock them into their shelter.

 

[Ruexiki]

Happy birthday! Yes, I put mine indoors every night in his indoor enclosure. Others like Tom have outdoor shelters, but still search their tortoises every night and lock them into their shelter.

Thank you for your birthday wishes from Finland!
I have read from others that tortoises don't enjoy spending time indoors, but perhaps they will get used to it if it's only for sleep. That makes sense, thank you for explaining.

 

[Ruexiki]

Summer daytime high here are typically over 100 degrees. I made a semi-underground shelter for them. I put a radiant heat panel on the top of the lid so I could give them a little night heat in spring and fall.

View attachment 375695

View attachment 375696
View attachment 375697


Nothing beats going underground for temperature stability, but a simple insulated night box like the one in this thread will work just fine too:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

They typically only dig down a few inches. In extreme weather, hot or cold, I've seen 18 inches, but that is rare. Deeper than this is certainly possible, but I've never seen or heard of that.


Who gave you those instructions? How's that working out for you? Emulating some parts of the natural world is a good idea. Other parts of their lives need to be managed in a captive environment. There is a lot of bad tortoise care info out in the world. Its hard to know who to listen to sometimes. Please feel free to ask questions. Make us explain why we make the assertions we make.

Wow thanks for the photos Tom! That looks like great craftsmanship. Definitely helps to give me ideas on how to construction something similar in the future! Is the blue box where you secure them every night or do they have free access to go in and out of it through the small tunnel? Is the other square wooden box in front of the blue one a hide for them to freely go underground? Are the bottom of the boxes solid wood and does that pose a problem when it rains?

I had read that Russians can dig quite deep, as you've mentioned, 18 inches or deeper. At this point, I'm not sure if that's why I couldn't find him since I was only able to dig a few inches under his hide. The other location I think he's under is beneath a flower bush with thick roots that I cannot dig under, so I would need to pull the whole plant out to try to dig for him, while also trying not to hurt him in the process.

The organization I adopted from had very strict requirements on 100% outdoor living all year including brumation for most places (or brumation in garage is recommended if the area is far too cold). During the nighttime, they simply advise to let the tortoise sleep under their hide in the enclosure, and allowing them natural ground to dig and bury themselves if they like. Thus, this is the first I'm hearing about the need to move them indoors at night or to secure them in a semi-underground box overnight. So far, all of their instructions and advice given to me have been sensible and insightful to prepare me adequately. However, this summer estivation extended-hiding period took me by surprise! I do see the rationale in manually moving them into a box overnight as you do, so they are not left to their own devices and dig themselves too far in during extreme temperatures. Thank you again for your thoughtful response!

 

[Tom]

Wow thanks for the photos Tom! That looks like great craftsmanship. Definitely helps to give me ideas on how to construction something similar in the future! Is the blue box where you secure them every night or do they have free access to go in and out of it through the small tunnel? Is the other square wooden box in front of the blue one a hide for them to freely go underground? Are the bottom of the boxes solid wood and does that pose a problem when it rains?

I had read that Russians can dig quite deep, as you've mentioned, 18 inches or deeper. At this point, I'm not sure if that's why I couldn't find him since I was only able to dig a few inches under his hide. The other location I think he's under is beneath a flower bush with thick roots that I cannot dig under, so I would need to pull the whole plant out to try to dig for him, while also trying not to hurt him in the process.

The organization I adopted from had very strict requirements on 100% outdoor living all year including brumation for most places (or brumation in garage is recommended if the area is far too cold). During the nighttime, they simply advise to let the tortoise sleep under their hide in the enclosure, and allowing them natural ground to dig and bury themselves if they like. Thus, this is the first I'm hearing about the need to move them indoors at night or to secure them in a semi-underground box overnight. So far, all of their instructions and advice given to me have been sensible and insightful to prepare me adequately. However, this summer estivation extended-hiding period took me by surprise! I do see the rationale in manually moving them into a box overnight as you do, so they are not left to their own devices and dig themselves too far in during extreme temperatures. Thank you again for your thoughtful response!

I had a thread that carefully described everything, but the pics were lost, so I just put a few pics for you to see. Here is the thread, sans pictures:

Semi-Underground Russian Box

I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..." It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in...

tortoiseforum.org

And the companion thread explaining the heating seen in the above picture:

Heating An Outdoor Russian Night Box

I have been mulling this problem over for a long time now. The days here are plenty warm for a russian for most of the year. I hibernate them in winter, so they are fast asleep for the vast majority of the cooler days anyway. My problem is that we have cold nights here. Even with days in the...

tortoiseforum.org

If they weren't already in there, I put them in there every night. If I didn't want them to come out for any reason, I would block the entrance with a cinder block after they were in.

The bigger box in the back with the hinged lid was the underground portion. Then the little covered tunnel leading up, and the upper box that is closest in the picture, is essentially a rain cover to keep rain out, and it also serves as some shade for them to come up from underground and survey the surface so they can decide where they want to go.

I had galvanized welded wire at the bottom of that big box and about 6 inches of hand packed coco coir and native dirt for them to dig into on top of the wire.

Brumation for this species needs to be cold. Doing it above ground outside or in a garage is not safe in my experience. Something can and often does go wrong. They need a consistent 36-39 degrees all winter. Warmer than that and they remain too active. Colder than that and you risk freezing their eyeballs and blinding them, though I've been told by people who brumate them deep underground with leaf litter, hay, tarps and all sorts of other stuff on top, that they can handle below freezing temps with no problems. Personally, I use a fridge. My winters here are WAYYYYY too warm and inconsistent for Russians. I think your winters are probably similar to mine. When that time comes, here is a thread explaining what to do and not do:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Here are more pics of the underground box to show more details:

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

A good reason to lock your tortoise in their shelter at night is predators. For some reason when tortoises are asleep they will let any rodents or such just chew away on them.

One reason I take mine indoors is that I wasn't able to build any heating for his outdoor shelter, since it is going to be temporary. The summer nights here in Finland can be rough! Plus I have to have an indoor enclosure for him anyway. It will be too cold for him outside most of the year and I don't want to brumate him so long. So yeah, me having an indoor enclosure has to do mostly with my climate.

 

[Ruexiki]

A good reason to lock your tortoise in their shelter at night is predators. For some reason when tortoises are asleep they will let any rodents or such just chew away on them.

One reason I take mine indoors is that I wasn't able to build any heating for his outdoor shelter, since it is going to be temporary. The summer nights here in Finland can be rough! Plus I have to have an indoor enclosure for him anyway. It will be too cold for him outside most of the year and I don't want to brumate him so long. So yeah, me having an indoor enclosure has to do mostly with my climate.

That is scary to think about that they will not try to hide or protect themselves in their shells when they are asleep! Definitely a good reason to lock up each night.
Here we don't have a rodent problem at least not me. However, I do hear many box turtle owners report raccoons killing their box turtles, but I believe it is the juvenile ones that suffer, not sure if they go for adults too but probably. That totally makes sense to provide best of both worlds in your case since the Russian species is not adapted to your natural environment.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

@Tom probably knows more about raccoons, we don't get them here.

 

[Ruexiki]

I had a thread that carefully described everything, but the pics were lost, so I just put a few pics for you to see. Here is the thread, sans pictures:

Semi-Underground Russian Box

I can only imagine the rolling eyes... "Tom is at it again..." It gets very hot here in the summertime. Every day is near 100 and sometimes its over 110. In winter, most nights are in the 30s and occasionally we dip into the 20s. For fossorial species like sulcatas, Desert Tortoises, and in...

tortoiseforum.org

And the companion thread explaining the heating seen in the above picture:

Heating An Outdoor Russian Night Box

I have been mulling this problem over for a long time now. The days here are plenty warm for a russian for most of the year. I hibernate them in winter, so they are fast asleep for the vast majority of the cooler days anyway. My problem is that we have cold nights here. Even with days in the...

tortoiseforum.org

If they weren't already in there, I put them in there every night. If I didn't want them to come out for any reason, I would block the entrance with a cinder block after they were in.

The bigger box in the back with the hinged lid was the underground portion. Then the little covered tunnel leading up, and the upper box that is closest in the picture, is essentially a rain cover to keep rain out, and it also serves as some shade for them to come up from underground and survey the surface so they can decide where they want to go.

I had galvanized welded wire at the bottom of that big box and about 6 inches of hand packed coco coir and native dirt for them to dig into on top of the wire.

Brumation for this species needs to be cold. Doing it above ground outside or in a garage is not safe in my experience. Something can and often does go wrong. They need a consistent 36-39 degrees all winter. Warmer than that and they remain too active. Colder than that and you risk freezing their eyeballs and blinding them, though I've been told by people who brumate them deep underground with leaf litter, hay, tarps and all sorts of other stuff on top, that they can handle below freezing temps with no problems. Personally, I use a fridge. My winters here are WAYYYYY too warm and inconsistent for Russians. I think your winters are probably similar to mine. When that time comes, here is a thread explaining what to do and not do:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Here are more pics of the underground box to show more details:
View attachment 375851
View attachment 375852
View attachment 375853

View attachment 375854

View attachment 375855

Thanks for all the links and all your contributions Tom! Too bad the pics were lost... Thanks for the explanations, the rain cover over the tunnel was a great idea! I'll definitely try to see if I am able to construct something similar to your wired-bottom night box.

Winter temperatures here (growing zone 8) range from low 30s - high 50s. My garage denitely gets warm during the day so that is not an option. Most people here have box turtles that brumate themselves by digging underground all winter Nov - April/May quite sucessfully. I've not heard of people saying that it gets too warm for their box turtles at least...

Russians are more cold tolerant than box turtles so I definitely also plan to allow mine to brumate outdoors in which he will dig underground as much as he needs to, and I plan to add insulation over the dirt in the form of leaves/straw like you alluded to. You bet I'll definitely be taking the time to read through your linked threads in the meantime! Really appreciate the help

 

[Future4Animals]

Hello all! This is my first post. I have learned a lot from the forums. I adopted my adult Russian tortoise this spring and I live in Southwest USA, very hot desert environment. He lives in an outdoor enclosure in my backyard.

In June, when the weather got above 100 degrees he went into hiding one night and I have not seen him for over a month! It's now end of July. I don't believe he escaped as the enclosure is built to prevent escape, and my yard is sealed off anyway and I have not seen him gotten out. I have tried digging for him under his hide where I last saw him, but can't find him after digging 6-8 inches. He may also possibly have dug himself under a plant shrub he likes to sleep under, however it was not possible for me to dig under the plant roots. I am hoping he is down there. I still make sure there is water everyday, and there are many plants in the enclosure for him to eat if he does decide to wander out, though I have not seen him out yet despite checking early mornings and later evenings when it is cool. It has rained a couple times this summer and I thought for sure I'd see him the following mornings or evenings, but no luck yet.

I have read all about summer estivation however cannot find exactly just how long they can stay under. I've read on other threads that they might stay buried from June to October for the entire summer! What has been your experience for those who have outdoor-living Russian tortoises in hot & arid climates? How deep can they dig? All I can do now is wait until he hopefully comes out in the Fall, but some reassurance would be very helpful! Thanks so much!!!

I've got a group here in Phoenix (2.8). Inevitably, two to three disappear in June and don't resurface in August or September. They just dig themselves into a hole and just hang out till they feel comfortable and the temperature is not as crazy hot. As a matter of fact, one popped out this weekend. She had a 3-in chunk of dirt on her back as she walked around the enclosure. My rule of thumb is as long as they are healthy and eating during the spring, going down for a summer nap shouldn't be a problem. Keep us posted

 

[Ruexiki]

I've got a group here in Phoenix (2.8). Inevitably, two to three disappear in June and don't resurface in August or September. They just dig themselves into a hole and just hang out till they feel comfortable and the temperature is not as crazy hot. As a matter of fact, one popped out this weekend. She had a 3-in chunk of dirt on her back as she walked around the enclosure. My rule of thumb is as long as they are healthy and eating during the spring, going down for a summer nap shouldn't be a problem. Keep us posted

Hi there thanks so much for your answer! That sounds exactly like what mine is probably doing... It's been in the 80s-100s every week here. I even tried running water from the hose in the enclosure until he comes out as others have suggested, which should draw him out, with no luck. He must just be really determined to stay put longer! I knew to expect winter brumation but did not expect him to hide through all of the summer months as well! Fingers crossed he comes out in September, will update you guys.
Let us know when the rest if your group come out also please!
Do your group of males/females get along with each other?