Keeping them outdoors year round?

[natsamjosh]

I don't have a Greek tortoise (yet), but I really like the look of the Golden Greeks. Seems like there is very little care information on the internet, and even less about housing these guys outdoors. Specifically, I am curious if Golden Greeks can be housed outdoors year-round in central North Carolina. I have a Hermann's tortoise outside, and I constructed a hibernaculum for him so he can hibernate over the winter. Can I do the same with a Golden Greek?

Thanks in advance,
Ed

 

[Tortoise]

I don't have a Greek tortoise (yet), but I really like the look of the Golden Greeks. Seems like there is very little care information on the internet, and even less about housing these guys outdoors. Specifically, I am curious if Golden Greeks can be housed outdoors year-round in central North Carolina. I have a Hermann's tortoise outside, and I constructed a hibernaculum for him so he can hibernate over the winter. Can I do the same with a Golden Greek?

Thanks in advance,
Ed

Reptiles Magazine July 2009 -had an article if you can get a copy, if not PM me.
Also I think there is an article on them on the website
http://www.chelonia.org/articles/tiberagoldengreekcare.htm
Their care is very similar to regular but they appear a little less hardy for temperature and can get runny nose syndrome fairly easily. I know of a few in the UK that didn't fair well-probably too damp, a few keepers lost them there quite quickly. I think the Ibera type are tougher like Hermanns-hard to get a definite sub species sometimes though -well here it is anyway.
I think these guys don't hibernate as they are usually from a warmer climate so would normally be over wintered.

 

[GBtortoises]

The most important thing to know with "Greek" tortoises is from what region of their vast range that they are from. There are basically three geographical areas that they inhabit in the wild: Northern Mediterranean, Middle East & North African. Not all "Greek" tortoises are susceptible to cold weather related problems. Northern Mediterranean Ibera and some of the extreme northern Middle Easterns are actually very cold hardy. Southern Middle Eastern species and North Africans are not as cold hardy. And the more northern species do hibernate.
"Golden Greeks" are not a single species. Importers, dealers and other vendors are calling any Greek tortoise that has a lot of light coloration and lacking dark pigment a "Golden Greek". It's simply a common name, not the species name. Tortoises considered "Golden Greeks" can be from any of about a half dozen Middle Eastern species (or subspecies). Some Northern Mediterranean Ibera have even been called "Golden Greeks" as have some of the North Africans.
Generally (very generally) speaking. Middle Eastern Greeks are cold tolerant wtih some limitations. As long as the cold temperatures are not accompanied by excessive humidity and/or dampness they can tolerate very cold temperatures. But I would be cautious about temperature at or near 40 degrees for more than very short periods.

For an excellent example of keeping Golden Greeks in North Carolina check out this website:
http://www.tortoisereserve.org/captivehusbandry/goldengreek.html

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I used to catch-and-release Greek tortoises when I was a little boy in Israel, where "Golden Greeks" are from. Israel's climate is more like that of Southern California in the US, so I wouldn't keep them unless I lived in an area like that.

 

[natsamjosh]

Thanks for the replies, this is great information!

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Tccarolina]

I'm in central California, and I let my male golden greek hibernate last winter, as my other two Syrian greeks I had then fully hibernated underground the past two years. It was a very cold, wet, and foggy winter this past year. He did fine. He spent the winter partially buried, and would bask on warm sunny days when it reached the upper 50's. It turns out my climate very closely models many of the local climates in Jordan and Syria. Mine are from Jordan.
Now I have 11 golden greeks, and plan to let them all hibernate/overwinter outside on their own this year. I will be monitoring their health carefully for signs of illness, and will have backup accommodations prepared in case it doesn't go well. Also, my enclosure is large, and they have many areas to find the microclimate that best suits them and hopefully reduces the stress that is tremendously influential in disease occurrence.

This article is what prompted me to try hibernating them. It describes allowing golden greeks to hibernate outside in North Carolina.

http://www.tortoisereserve.org/captivehusbandry/goldengreek.html

This next article is a research article on greek tortoises in Jordan. The author says they hibernate in the wild there, burrowing slightly under the surface of leaf litter in the pine and oak forests. It seems that if they hibernate in Jordan, then they probably hibernate to some degree throughout their natural range.

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Research/Testudo graeca.htm

The important thing to consider is, until there is extensive successful experiences achieved with these tortoises in different climates, it will probably be risky. Most of the rainfall occurs there in the winter and spring. It is cool and wet, and mild freezes occur, the same as my climate. Your climate year-round is certainly different than mine, but if the winter conditions are similar, you may have similar experiences. My male did bask in the winter sun when he could. That may have been VERY important. Or it might not be. We don't know. The tortoise trust article talks about them basking in the winter sun as well. Does your pen have winter sun exposure?

Steve

 

[natsamjosh]

I'm in central California, and I let my male golden greek hibernate last winter, as my other two Syrian greeks I had then fully hibernated underground the past two years. It was a very cold, wet, and foggy winter this past year. He did fine. He spent the winter partially buried, and would bask on warm sunny days when it reached the upper 50's. It turns out my climate very closely models many of the local climates in Jordan and Syria. Mine are from Jordan.
Now I have 11 golden greeks, and plan to let them all hibernate/overwinter outside on their own this year. I will be monitoring their health carefully for signs of illness, and will have backup accommodations prepared in case it doesn't go well. Also, my enclosure is large, and they have many areas to find the microclimate that best suits them and hopefully reduces the stress that is tremendously influential in disease occurrence.

This article is what prompted me to try hibernating them. It describes allowing golden greeks to hibernate outside in North Carolina.

http://www.tortoisereserve.org/captivehusbandry/goldengreek.html

This next article is a research article on greek tortoises in Jordan. The author says they hibernate in the wild there, burrowing slightly under the surface of leaf litter in the pine and oak forests. It seems that if they hibernate in Jordan, then they probably hibernate to some degree throughout their natural range.

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Research/Testudo graeca.htm

The important thing to consider is, until there is extensive successful experiences achieved with these tortoises in different climates, it will probably be risky. Most of the rainfall occurs there in the winter and spring. It is cool and wet, and mild freezes occur, the same as my climate. Your climate year-round is certainly different than mine, but if the winter conditions are similar, you may have similar experiences. My male did bask in the winter sun when he could. That may have been VERY important. Or it might not be. We don't know. The tortoise trust article talks about them basking in the winter sun as well. Does your pen have winter sun exposure?

Steve

Steve,

Thanks so much for your input. I think I understand the risks now, so I'll have to decide whether I want to accept them. My enclosure has good sun exposure for most of the day. At this point, though, given the responses to my post, I don't think I want to take the risk. We have a couple hard freezes here every year. I built what I think is a sufficient hibernaculum for my Hermann's tortoise, but before I even consider a Greek, I'll wait to see how my Hermann's does over the winter.

Thanks again!
Ed