Kelly, Tom, Dean and Neal's Sulcata Husbandry Method Experiments

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Katherine

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Just read this entirrrre thread. Very interesting, thank you all who have taken the time to share their methods. Makes me very grateful I do not live in the desert ;)
 

Tom

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Katherine said:
Just read this entirrrre thread. Very interesting, thank you all who have taken the time to share their methods. Makes me very grateful I do not live in the desert ;)

The desert works great for housing juveniles and adults, with some proper heated shelters, of course, but your area sure must make it easier to raise hatchlings...

I've gotta say though, I am not at all unhappy with the regime I've worked out. Indoors in a 4x8 with daily sunning trips for the first year or two and then outside to the great outdoors full time after that with a heated underground shelter.
 

filbertjonathan

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This is an amazing thread. I have read one by one the contain of this thread.
I mix all the method in this thread to get the most suitable condition in my country, Indonesia.
The ambient temp here around 30 in the middle of the day, and the worst around 23.
I have shared this forum to indonesian tortoise forum and indonesian tortoise facebook group. ( i always put the link )
I got many reaction after i post it, and most of the reaction is not good. They don't agree about this concept. I don't want to make it become debatable, especially about humidity and how often they soak their tortoise. They are afraid their torto attak by flu ( runny nose syndrome), so i let them to apply their method. They said torto will get enough water from their food, and so on.
But after a few day, they would post to facebook and asked why their tortoise stop eating and then i asked about he temp and humidity, how aften they soak, and so pathetic some of them don't know the humidity and some of them give very low humidity, and they kill their tortoise by dehydration.
Anyway, i just give illustration above.
But, FOR ME, i applied your method above.
I set my tortoise table ( 120x80x40 cm). I use three kind of lamps, basking 50 watt, uvb , and infrared.
I use coco peat for substrate, i pour boiled water 2 times a month.
I maintain the basking temp 34 c, around basking 30-31 c, and the dark side for sleep 27-30 (use infrared).
The humidity 60-80, i spray the substrate include the tortoise maybe around 6 times a day depend on the weather and humidity. (my wife do it when i am working, coz she loves tortoises so much, called them our children).
I sunbathe hem everyday intense basking start fro 07.00-08.30 depend on the sun intensity. After that i soak them with warm water around 30C for 30 minutes, under the sun, and then i let them roam in my garden,feeding them there under morning sun until 10.30. I feed them by recommended vegetables, grass, hibicus, and cactus, give them cuttle bone mix with supplement three times a week. After that i put hem in tortoise table. I repeat the morning treatment in the evening.
And the result i never get RNS problem doing this method, my tortoise grow quickly then before, increase their appetite. I can avoid pyramiding, because some of my tortoise i bought has been pyramiding. I don't know about pyramiding in the first. And here, here is an opinion for some people about pyramiding.they said pyramiding will make their tortoise looked more solid. And after i read many references, i know that is not good for tortoise. I don't know whether i can stop it or not, but i think it can, i just try to make the pyramiding grow slower and smoother.
And that is my experience, a big thank you and appreciate i give to Tom and the others.

Here some pic of my tortoises.

My biggest sulcata


image-3302154175.png

One of my leopard


image-617287401.png

Time to sunbath


image-61035950.png

Tortoise tale set up


image-1374598133.png
 

Tom

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fj, the myths your countrymen are repeating to you are the same ones we have here. The old books all say to keep them dry. They are just plain wrong.

The best thing you can do is show them by example. When their tortoise pyramid more and more, and yours all start smoothing out and thriving, then they will have no choice but to admit that it works and their old method does not.

On your enclosure, you can get even better results if you start using a proper humid hide over on the warm side with the infrared. Also, it looks like you are using on of those coil bulbs for UV. Those can damage their eyes and if your tortoises are getting regular sunshine, you shouldn't need any indoor UV.

Good luck my Indonesian ambassador friend.
 

filbertjonathan

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Tom said:
fj, the myths your countrymen are repeating to you are the same ones we have here. The old books all say to keep them dry. They are just plain wrong.

The best thing you can do is show them by example. When their tortoise pyramid more and more, and yours all start smoothing out and thriving, then they will have no choice but to admit that it works and their old method does not.

On your enclosure, you can get even better results if you start using a proper humid hide over on the warm side with the infrared. Also, it looks like you are using on of those coil bulbs for UV. Those can damage their eyes and if your tortoises are getting regular sunshine, you shouldn't need any indoor UV.

Good luck my Indonesian ambassador friend.

Thank you Tom for the suggestion and advice, i will have some modifications again. I use vivaria uvb 10.0 26 watt, is the lamp harmful for tortoise eyes? I use the lamp only when the rainy day. Do you have any idea what kind of lamp should i use?

Once again thank you.
 

DeanS

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filbertjonathan said:
Tom said:
fj, the myths your countrymen are repeating to you are the same ones we have here. The old books all say to keep them dry. They are just plain wrong.

The best thing you can do is show them by example. When their tortoise pyramid more and more, and yours all start smoothing out and thriving, then they will have no choice but to admit that it works and their old method does not.

On your enclosure, you can get even better results if you start using a proper humid hide over on the warm side with the infrared. Also, it looks like you are using on of those coil bulbs for UV. Those can damage their eyes and if your tortoises are getting regular sunshine, you shouldn't need any indoor UV.

Good luck my Indonesian ambassador friend.

Thank you Tom for the suggestion and advice, i will have some modifications again. I use vivaria uvb 10.0 26 watt, is the lamp harmful for tortoise eyes? I use the lamp only when the rainy day. Do you have any idea what kind of lamp should i use?

Once again thank you.

Arguably, the BEST lamp for indoor husbandry is the Zoo Med Powersun. It is reasonable to use only a basking bulb if your tortoises can get at least 2 hours of direct sunlight daily.


Katherine said:
Just read this entirrrre thread. Very interesting, thank you all who have taken the time to share their methods. Makes me very grateful I do not live in the desert ;)

I love the desert (from Spring through Fall). I can't stand the winters here. Louisiana humidity would prove very beneficial to the little ones for those first few years, I'm sure!:tort:
 

filbertjonathan

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DeanS said:
Arguably, the BEST lamp for indoor husbandry is the Zoo Med Powersun. It is reasonable to use only a basking bulb if your tortoises can get at least 2 hours of direct sunlight daily.



I love the desert (from Spring through Fall). I can't stand the winters here. Louisiana humidity would prove very beneficial to the little ones for those first few years, I'm sure!:tort:



Okay deans i got the point, and lucky me now i got many information about uvb lamp, and i will stop using it, start from tomorrow.
 

Tom

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fj, since your UV needs are met in the best way possible, REAL sunshine, you do not need ANY UV bulbs indoors. You can just use regular incandescent flood bulbs for some basking spots when they are indoors. My preference is to use low wattage bulbs, usually around 65 watts, and adjust the height of the fixture to get the temp just right. If you need more light, you can use the long florescent tubes.
 

DeanS

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Just a quick update here! I have not been happy with the growth of my Sudans...especially since Tom's are more than twice the size of mine! I adjusted my set-up...and growth has improved dramatically!

three days after adjusting diet and humidity...

169g - 180g
144g - 171g
132g - 172g
84g - 99g
61g - 61g

Also, for those of you following the Snowflake saga...a year ago, she was 3.75" and 130g. Now, she's 4.25" and 167g.
 

lovelyrosepetal

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What have you adjusted your diet and humidity to? My regular sulcatas look so small next to Tom's of approximately the same age and maybe if I adjust they will have results similar to yours. That and I don't want to make his smaller.
 

Yellow Turtle

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filbertjonathan said:
DeanS said:
Arguably, the BEST lamp for indoor husbandry is the Zoo Med Powersun. It is reasonable to use only a basking bulb if your tortoises can get at least 2 hours of direct sunlight daily.



I love the desert (from Spring through Fall). I can't stand the winters here. Louisiana humidity would prove very beneficial to the little ones for those first few years, I'm sure!:tort:



Okay deans i got the point, and lucky me now i got many information about uvb lamp, and i will stop using it, start from tomorrow.



ZooMed brand is not available in Indonesia. We only get Exoterra and Vivaria. Luckily we have plenty of sun light here. :D


filbertjonathan said:
This is an amazing thread. I have read one by one the contain of this thread.
I mix all the method in this thread to get the most suitable condition in my country, Indonesia.
The ambient temp here around 30 in the middle of the day, and the worst around 23.
I have shared this forum to indonesian tortoise forum and indonesian tortoise facebook group. ( i always put the link )
I got many reaction after i post it, and most of the reaction is not good. They don't agree about this concept. I don't want to make it become debatable, especially about humidity and how often they soak their tortoise. They are afraid their torto attak by flu ( runny nose syndrome), so i let them to apply their method. They said torto will get enough water from their food, and so on.
But after a few day, they would post to facebook and asked why their tortoise stop eating and then i asked about he temp and humidity, how aften they soak, and so pathetic some of them don't know the humidity and some of them give very low humidity, and they kill their tortoise by dehydration.
Anyway, i just give illustration above.
But, FOR ME, i applied your method above.
I set my tortoise table ( 120x80x40 cm). I use three kind of lamps, basking 50 watt, uvb , and infrared.
I use coco peat for substrate, i pour boiled water 2 times a month.
I maintain the basking temp 34 c, around basking 30-31 c, and the dark side for sleep 27-30 (use infrared).
The humidity 60-80, i spray the substrate include the tortoise maybe around 6 times a day depend on the weather and humidity. (my wife do it when i am working, coz she loves tortoises so much, called them our children).
I sunbathe hem everyday intense basking start fro 07.00-08.30 depend on the sun intensity. After that i soak them with warm water around 30C for 30 minutes, under the sun, and then i let them roam in my garden,feeding them there under morning sun until 10.30. I feed them by recommended vegetables, grass, hibicus, and cactus, give them cuttle bone mix with supplement three times a week. After that i put hem in tortoise table. I repeat the morning treatment in the evening.
And the result i never get RNS problem doing this method, my tortoise grow quickly then before, increase their appetite. I can avoid pyramiding, because some of my tortoise i bought has been pyramiding. I don't know about pyramiding in the first. And here, here is an opinion for some people about pyramiding.they said pyramiding will make their tortoise looked more solid. And after i read many references, i know that is not good for tortoise. I don't know whether i can stop it or not, but i think it can, i just try to make the pyramiding grow slower and smoother.
And that is my experience, a big thank you and appreciate i give to Tom and the others.

FJ, I think Tom's closed enclosure humidity exceeds yours and your enclosure seems to be more open to me compares to him. I also hope to know the result of this being conducted in our country. Hope you can get another truly un-pyramided hatchling to try this method and see the growth rate. Good luck :)
 

filbertjonathan

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Yellow Turtle said:
ZooMed brand is not available in Indonesia. We only get Exoterra and Vivaria. Luckily we have plenty of sun light here. :D



FJ, I think Tom's closed enclosure humidity exceeds yours and your enclosure seems to be more open to me compares to him. I also hope to know the result of this being conducted in our country. Hope you can get another truly un-pyramided hatchling to try this method and see the growth rate. Good luck :)



Hhehehehe i try my to get un-pyramided hatchling.
And as you said we are lucky getting more sunshine in here. But raining season is coming now especially in Borneo.
I have made a modification to keep my tortoise warm enough with only use one lamp, i have tried it 3 days in the rainy day. And i got a good result.


image-633207426.png

I called it semi greenhouse. I can keep the humidity 70 and temp 28-30 c in their sleeping place.
 

Yellow Turtle

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filbertjonathan said:
Yellow Turtle said:
ZooMed brand is not available in Indonesia. We only get Exoterra and Vivaria. Luckily we have plenty of sun light here. :D



FJ, I think Tom's closed enclosure humidity exceeds yours and your enclosure seems to be more open to me compares to him. I also hope to know the result of this being conducted in our country. Hope you can get another truly un-pyramided hatchling to try this method and see the growth rate. Good luck :)



Hhehehehe i try my to get un-pyramided hatchling.
And as you said we are lucky getting more sunshine in here. But raining season is coming now especially in Borneo.
I have made a modification to keep my tortoise warm enough with only use one lamp, i have tried it 3 days in the rainy day. And i got a good result.


View attachment 33218

I called it semi greenhouse. I can keep the humidity 70 and temp 28-30 c in their sleeping place.



I think you should shoot for 80-90% humidity if want to follow Tom's method. Well good luck again, I'm interested to know the result too :)
 

filbertjonathan

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Yellow Turtle said:
I think you should shoot for 80-90% humidity if want to follow Tom's method. Well good luck again, I'm interested to know the result too :)

In their hiding place (made by plastic chair the humid 80-90) the temp 29 -30.

But i have questions maybe someone here can explain me.
1. I made 4 conditions. The condition under the basking the lamp in rainy evening around 34-35 humid around 60. I put hiding cave there. I use intense basking exoterra, and it means the condition is so bright . But WHY my tortoises prefer sleep under the basking lamp or near the lamp to the place which i have set for their sleep condition (humid,temp and there is no light) Should i be worry when they sleep around basking lamp which the temp is high enough, although i have put water bowl there?
 

Neal

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What are you using to measure the temperatures?

The first thing that comes to mind when they spend most of their time near the basking spot is that they are too cool everywhere else.
 

filbertjonathan

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Neal said:
What are you using to measure the temperatures?

The first thing that comes to mind when they spend most of their time near the basking spot is that they are too cool everywhere else.

I use 5 thermo and hygrometer. Each thermometer show the same degree. I think my torto paranoid in the dark hehehhehe
 

tortadise

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Well heres somewhat of a half update on mine I kept back. I kept the runts,split scutes, and the largest out of 118 babies that hatched last year from my huge female mimi. These guys are at 5 months old from hatch out. They really are showing fantastic blonde and very light coloration. In the past I notice the coloration being a lot darker than these in my methods used. I did not weigh them. But the biggest one (tank) is 4 1/2" and peanut (the runt) is still hangin around 3 1/4". Looking good so far on all my guys I kept back.

IMG_20121222_145450_zpsd0de8ab2.jpg
 
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