Leopard Tortoise baby not growing, Vitamins in water?

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
I have had a hatchling tort for 6 months. For 4 months she (I know, don't know) had to share. She is only added 1 gram in 2 months. Active, eyes look good, humidity 80-85%, basking temp 90, various temps in her tort (purchased table top) mostly 80s, far end 70s. Daily soaks, eats mixed baby greens, cactus pads, doesn't touch cuttlebone, difficult to get to eat any mazuri. add minerall and repti cal. I heard of baby vitamins in soaking water. opinions? Happy Holidays!
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
You can add a couple drops of liquid bird vitamins into the soaking water a couple times a week.

When you say she had to share, are you saying that she was in the same enclosure with another tortoise? That's probably the reason for slow growth.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I have had a hatchling tort for 6 months. For 4 months she (I know, don't know) had to share. She is only added 1 gram in 2 months. Active, eyes look good, humidity 80-85%, basking temp 90, various temps in her tort (purchased table top) mostly 80s, far end 70s. Daily soaks, eats mixed baby greens, cactus pads, doesn't touch cuttlebone, difficult to get to eat any mazuri. add minerall and repti cal. I heard of baby vitamins in soaking water. opinions? Happy Holidays!
Your temps sound a little cool over all. Cool side should be no lower than 80 and basking area should be closer to 100.

Where did you get the tortoise? How much does it weigh?
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
You can add a couple drops of liquid bird vitamins into the soaking water a couple times a week.

When you say she had to share, are you saying that she was in the same enclosure with another tortoise? That's probably the reason for slow growth.
Yes there was another leopard tortoise hatchling there but he didnt make it.
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
Your temps sound a little cool over all. Cool side should be no lower than 80 and basking area should be closer to 100.

Where did you get the tortoise? How much does it weigh?
I bought from underground reptiles with priority overnight, added cool pack delivered in May. They were shipped in separate containers with moist sphagnum. 24 grams, 27 grams now. It is the south African pardalis pardalis. I grow the African grazing tortoise seed grasses & dandelion, but I'm having a problem with keeping the grass alive if I bump the temp up..

I'm afraid of a mercury bulb but I use ceramic and tube uvb 10.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I bought from underground reptiles with priority overnight, added cool pack delivered in May. They were shipped in separate containers with moist sphagnum. 24 grams, 27 grams now. It is the south African pardalis pardalis. I grow the African grazing tortoise seed grasses & dandelion, but I'm having a problem with keeping the grass alive if I bump the temp up..

I'm afraid of a mercury bulb but I use ceramic and tube uvb 10.
Can we see a picture of them?
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
I bought from underground reptiles with priority overnight, added cool pack delivered in May. They were shipped in separate containers with moist sphagnum. 24 grams, 27 grams now. It is the south African pardalis pardalis. I grow the African grazing tortoise seed grasses & dandelion, but I'm having a problem with keeping the grass alive if I bump the temp up..

I'm afraid of a mercury bulb but I use ceramic and tube uvb 10.
In order to get her to eat mazuri, I'm putting the greens, grass, & cactus in a food processor. Then she will eat it. Cactus is the key. If I omit cactus she wont eat it. But if I leave mazuri out she will eat any greens or grass.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
Riann G.(The owner, not the other Ryan there) at UNDERGROUND, keeps almost all of his juvenile tortoises on rabbit pellets.
I mentioned that on a recent trip there, I saw dust all over his Redfoot hatchlings for sale.
Actual dust.
So, I suppose it comes down to how long he held them and who hatched them and how he or she kept them.
Tortoises not "started" correctly rarely thrive and often have very short lives.
There may or may not be anything that you are doing wrong.
After knowing UNDERGROUND REPTILES and his previous business BOX OF SNAKES. I can say that he's a good guy. An honest man.
But cash is king. And I do not recommend his animals to our members.
I DO recommend SOUTHERN REPTILES. He is also local to me and he still has passion and compassion for his animals.
(He's also named Ryan)
I'd also recommend growing your feeding grass in a separate enclosure or you will have endless difficulty.
Just my 2 cents posted too late to help.
 
Last edited:

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
I only have this one. The other one died. They were taken to the vet. She said to soak this one 2x a day & put it outside, it was a hot summer. I let it be outside but with us out there. Then back inside. Now inside all the time.
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
Riann G.(The owner, not the other Ryan there) at UNDERGROUND, keeps almost all of his juvenile tortoises on rabbit pellets.
I mentioned that on a recent trip there, I saw dust all over his Redfoot hatchlings for sale.
Actual dust.
So, I suppose it comes down to how long he held them and who hatched them and how he or she kept them.
Tortoises not "started" correctly rarely thrive and often have very short lives.
There may or may not be anything that you are doing wrong.
After knowing UNDERGROUND REPTILES and his previous business BOX OF SNAKES. I can say that he's a good guy. An honest man.
But cash is king. And I do not recommend his animals to our members.
I DO recommend SOUTHERN REPTILES. He is also local to me and he still has passion and compassion for his animals.
(He's also named Ryan)
I'd also recommend growing your feeding grass in a separate enclosure or you will have endless difficulty.
Just my 2 cents posted too late to help.
That really bites. They were really expensive. I know I had to wait a few weeks for shipment. The larger one the vet couldnt save. Both still had their egg tooth. The smaller one I have now kept it for quite awhile. I wish I had read on here before I made my purchase.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I only have this one. The other one died. They were taken to the vet. She said to soak this one 2x a day & put it outside, it was a hot summer. I let it be outside but with us out there. Then back inside. Now inside all the time.
Sorry. This is what happens when you buy from the wrong source. And your vets advice to keep it outside made it worse.

Read this for more explanation:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Nothing you do can save them if the damage is already done. No vet and no amount of money can fix the kidneys if they were too dry.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
That really bites. They were really expensive. I know I had to wait a few weeks for shipment. The larger one the vet couldnt save. Both still had their egg tooth. The smaller one I have now kept it for quite awhile. I wish I had read on here before I made my purchase.
Your tortoise hasn't been given a death sentence.
Hopefully it will live a long life still.
The fact that you had to wait for them tells me that UNDERGROUND was waiting for a middle man breeder for your tortoises. And likely sent them out, directly afterwards. So their past isn't known at all.
UNDERGROUND doesn't breed. They briefly keep and re sell animals. That's a pretty standard practice.
It's always best to buy directly from a breeder/seller. Or someone that is known to sell only well started babies and healthy adults.
I'm curious as to the Mazuri that he "won't eat". Is it the L.S. type or the larger type 5M21?
Do you have photos?
Have you gone over our Leopards foods list?
Let's give this guy the best chance that we can.
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
Sorry. This is what happens when you buy from the wrong source. And your vets advice to keep it outside made it worse.

Read this for more explanation:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Nothing you do can save them if the damage is already done. No vet and no amount of money can fix the kidneys if they were too dry.
I didnt agree with the vet to leave them outside. Even though it was over 100 & 100% humidity. But we did take them outside for 1 soak, partially covered for shade option. Then let them stay out in damp sphagnum with humid hide not longer than 1 hr & soak in their inside water bowl. Then we would do the last soak of the day. But her hind legs were wrinkled & everyone at the vets said more soak shes dehydrated. The one that died was not dehydrated & a little larger than her.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
All you can do is the best you can do. Re-read our care sheets for leopard babies, make any adjustments to your enclosure, care and feeding, and hope for the best. We're all rooting for you and your little one.

I keep my babies in a closed enclosure and the temperature is always 80-85F degrees, day and night. I keep the substrate moist to wet. In the a.m. when the house is cold, there is so much condensation on the inside of their glass that you can't see in. Lots of plants to help diffuse the lighting, and food always sitting on the tile. Clean water at all times, even if it means changing it several times a day.

Good luck with this baby, and please keep us in the loop.
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
Your tortoise hasn't been given a death sentence.
Hopefully it will live a long life still.
The fact that you had to wait for them tells me that UNDERGROUND was waiting for a middle man breeder for your tortoises. And likely sent them out, directly afterwards. So their past isn't known at all.
UNDERGROUND doesn't breed. They briefly keep and re sell animals. That's a pretty standard practice.
It's always best to buy directly from a breeder/seller. Or someone that is known to sell only well started babies and healthy adults.
I'm curious as to the Mazuri that he "won't eat". Is it the L.S. type or the larger type 5M21?
Do you have photos?
Have you gone over our Leopards foods list?
Let's give this guy the best chance that we can.

Thanks, even if this one doesnt make it I still have the responsibility try the best I can. The one that is still alive the underside was soft, soft that it had to go to the vet. They said it was just young still had the egg tooth. It had it for almost 2 months it seemed like. The vets office soaked her on arrival. The underside is good now.

Every 3 days I change what's in her food. It's a varied assortment of what I have on hand.

Always majority 2 or more of these: collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, leaf lettuce

I'm struggling to provide these dandelion greens and flowers. I'm not having success growing & finding any.

Plenty here hibiscus leaves and flowers in summer, grape leaves I'm out of now since it got cold.
Spring mix salad

Spineless cactus pads she loves & I got some growing well here, aloe vera

carrots better since I started using a food processor, zucchini fresh but does not eat if I put thawed zucchini in her food.

baby bella mushrooms, yellow squash, bell peppers, blackberry leaves in season, marigold flowers & leaves, parsley, pansies or petunias

I grow hosta in her house & some in the greenhouse. Bermuda grass. I started growing grassland tortoise seed in the greenhouse, suggested here, they arent doing well in her habitat.

We grow bluestem in the hayfield. I was looking up what are native grasses that grow here and found teff grass so I thought I'd section the yard where she will eventually live to grow teff grass, sorghum grass, brown millet, appin turnip, gulf ryegrass, oat.

She does like zoo med gourmet tortoise food. Mazuri small tort ls, only after bribery.

I have some Blackwater reptiles tortoise pellets I offer to my husbands torts that are grown.

I've never given her fruit. Is there others that you recommend or some I should put more of in her mix? My goal is at least 12 different things in her food each time, prefer more. She is pretty active. The cam picks her up moving quite a bit. She visited the water dish & soaked about 10 min at least 4x yesterday that the camera caught. Shes eating, but the little stinker takes time to smell the details of her food dish, moving the food around with her feet, if she doesnt like it she walks off. I think cactus pads are good for her, but I dont want her insisting on a daily habit.

I give aviglo palm fruit oil to my bird. I'm curious if it would be ok to add to her food. It has vit e, a, beta carotene, antioxidants, omega 3 & 6. Palm fruit does grow in Africa, but the type in this is Brazilian dende palm.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
I've given my tortoises palm oil in the past. I never noticed a difference, but it's not harmful.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
12 items at once is a lot. And mixed up, might not get eaten if there's anything in there that the tort doesn't like and can't dig it out.
I feed dozens of things. But only 2 to 4 different things every day. And all of it just tossed around randomly within the enclosure.
If I find that there is an item that my torts don't eat, I remove it from the menu.
 

jeannettep

Active Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
124
Location (City and/or State)
Texas
12 items at once is a lot. And mixed up, might not get eaten if there's anything in there that the tort doesn't like and can't dig it out.
I feed dozens of things. But only 2 to 4 different things every day. And all of it just tossed around randomly within the enclosure.
If I find that there is an item that my torts don't eat, I remove it from the menu.
What size should the pieces be? Maybe I should stop chopping it up so small.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
What size should the pieces be? Maybe I should stop chopping it up so small.
Chopping is up to you.
While I do serve my smaller tortoises smaller pieces, I don't generally chop anything.
I would if my tortoise had issues eating. Or if the size, shape, or consistency would make it challenging.
I'd place items side by side. See what few items he likes.... and eats a lot of...and serve that as a staple. Then offer other things now and then. Maybe once a week.
Some members chop up elaborate salads. They are impressive.
If yours is picking through and often refusing all of it. Try to figure out what's in there that he likes. What he dislikes. And try to work around that for now.
Maybe he'll start to be less picky if he becomes heavier and gets excited about his food.
 
Top