Leopard Tortoise really ill after injections

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sofi132

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Leopard Tortoise seems really ill after injections - reptile vets?
I have been worried about my tortoise for about a month, she has runny nose syndrome.
She is a very active tortoise and eats loads, but she often blows bubbles of mucus from her nose and her nose is often running, so today I took her to the vets.

The vet had a look at her and gave her a duphafral multivitamin injection and a baytril injection.
He then said that they would need to keep her in a vivarium for 2 days having nebulisation.
They are then going to put a nasogastric tube into her neck and I have to give her baytril oral solution through it every 2 days. I have to take her in on monday.

But when I left I sat down waiting to be picked up from the vets and I looked into my tortoise's carrier cage and she was kind of vomiting out a clear fluid and blowing bubbles. She sat there with her eyes closed and was crying and her face was very moist. I was terrified that she was dying.
It then looked as if she had pushed out her intestines.

I ran back to the vets and told them and I waited for about half an hour to be seen again.
Eventually the vet saw us and he said that the foaming was just the runny nose syndrome, but she had never had it that bad before. He said it could have been because of having to force open her mouth to have a look. But last year when I took her to the vets she was fine.

I'm really worried that shes had a bad reaction to the injection. Do you think shes in pain from the injection? She looks so ill and lethargic. Shes just sitting there under the heat lamp, blowing bubbles out of her nose and she has her eyes closed but shes crying.

As for the intestine thing, it turns out she is a he. Even though the vet told me last year he was a she. He had been showing his male parts.. He did that twice. Do you know why he did this?

I'm so worried about him, I don't want to lose him.

My questions are,
1. Is it possible he could have had an allergic reaction?
2. Why did he show his male parts?
3. Did the needle hurt (he was injected in the area around the neck, the saggy bit the covers the entrance to the shell)? Could he still be in pain?
4. Is he going to be ok?

Its just every ill pet I've had, when they've had treatment, they've died.
I wish I never took him to the vets, he was (almost) fine before. :(

Also, he won't keep his eyes open. I think hes sleeping alot or maybe hes going blind or something. I really dont know. But it's completly out of character.
 

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Yvonne G

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Hi Sofi132:

I'm sorry to welcome you to the forum under such sad circumstances.

lt is a fact that some leopard tortoises are allergic to Baytril. And it sounds like that is what's going on with your tortoise. I think you've had a pretty bad experience with that vet and you need to find another one. One who knows more about turtles and tortoises. I don't know what the antidote is for the Baytril allergic reaction, but I do know that soaking the tortoise will help to get the drug out of his system faster. Put him in a shallow tub of warm water and just leave him there (under your supervision) for an hour or so.

Also, we NEVER, never allow a vet to inject our tortoises with the vitamin shots. They don't seem to understand the correct dosing and usually cause the tortoise's skin to slough off. So watch for that too.

I never worry about bubbly or runny noses as long as the tortoise is eating and otherwise acting normal. What's a few bubbles among friends? :D The tortoise's nares end up in the roof of the mouth, not down the throat, so quite often, what's in the mouth comes out the nose.

As for the male parts coming out...that was just due to the stressful situation. This is quite common and nothing to worry about.

Good luck with your tortoise. I hope he can get over this allergy and get back to normal quickly.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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I totally agree with Yvonne in every thing she said. I would also find another vet. Also that nebulisation is very hard on animals so I wouldn't allow that again. Soak your tort and treat him the way you would normally. I would increase his heat and soak him and pray that he will be all right. All that stuff the vet did is just terrible on our animals. I am also wondering why he had to stay for 2 days with the nebulisation, my cat had it and it took 2 minutes, not 2 days. Love on your tort and pet him and most of all put him out in the sun for a bit. Good luck and please keep us posted.
 

Missy

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Poor baby :( You have found the right place for help. You got really good advice from Maggie and Yvonne, they know there stuff. Please keep us up-dated.
 

Candy

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Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear about your little one but I'm glad that Yvonne came in and told you about your tortoise as she is very experienced with them. It doesn't say where you live, but if you look at the first page on TFO you will find a list of vets that Maggie has put together from the people here. Maybe you can find one that knows more then the one you took him to. Keep us updated please. Good luck. :)
 

firework

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I think the treatment he ordered is pretty invasive, don't know if necessary.

From what I know nebulisation tubalization is a tricky technique, especially for chelonians, because their stomach is positioned at mid plastron, must be very careful to place the tube at the right place and not injure the tissue along the way (otherwise hurts and causes infection).

sofi132 said:
Leopard Tortoise seems really ill after injections - reptile vets?
I have been worried about my tortoise for about a month, she has runny nose syndrome.
She is a very active tortoise and eats loads, but she often blows bubbles of mucus from her nose and her nose is often running, so today I took her to the vets.
The vet had a look at her and gave her a duphafral multivitamin injection and a baytril injection.
He then said that they would need to keep her in a vivarium for 2 days having nebulisation.
They are then going to put a nasogastric tube into her neck and I have to give her baytril oral solution through it every 2 days. I have to take her in on monday.

But when I left I sat down waiting to be picked up from the vets and I looked into my tortoise's carrier cage and she was kind of vomiting out a clear fluid and blowing bubbles. She sat there with her eyes closed and was crying and her face was very moist. I was terrified that she was dying.
It then looked as if she had pushed out her intestines.

I ran back to the vets and told them and I waited for about half an hour to be seen again.
Eventually the vet saw us and he said that the foaming was just the runny nose syndrome, but she had never had it that bad before. He said it could have been because of having to force open her mouth to have a look. But last year when I took her to the vets she was fine.

I'm really worried that shes had a bad reaction to the injection. Do you think shes in pain from the injection? She looks so ill and lethargic. Shes just sitting there under the heat lamp, blowing bubbles out of her nose and she has her eyes closed but shes crying.

As for the intestine thing, it turns out she is a he. Even though the vet told me last year he was a she. He had been showing his male parts.. He did that twice. Do you know why he did this?

I'm so worried about him, I don't want to lose him.

My questions are,
1. Is it possible he could have had an allergic reaction?
2. Why did he show his male parts?
3. Did the needle hurt (he was injected in the area around the neck, the saggy bit the covers the entrance to the shell)? Could he still be in pain?
4. Is he going to be ok?

Its just every ill pet I've had, when they've had treatment, they've died.
I wish I never took him to the vets, he was (almost) fine before. :(

Also, he won't keep his eyes open. I think hes sleeping alot or maybe hes going blind or something. I really dont know. But it's completly out of character.
 

Laura

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I wouldnt go back on Monday.. Do what was advised here and get some real sun, nice and warm if possible..
Is he eating now?
 

Yvonne G

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Yes...definitely what Laura said!!!

Don't go back to that vet. He/she obviously doesn't know turtles and tortoises.

I'm thinking that you are in the U.K. is that right? Please contact Kelly (Stells here on the forum). Look her up on the member list under the user name Stells, and ask her if she can put you into contact with a good tortoise vet in your area.
 

biglove4bigtorts

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I am not a vet, but I do have experience treating sensitive reptiles with antibiotics. I was a vet tech and have been a nursing assistant for 11 years, so I have much to draw from. I suggest against the naso-gastric tube, unless the tortoise is VERY undernourished and under weight alreays. If dehydration is a problem and with antibiotic use, the kidneys can be stressed, give sub Q fluids and warm soaks daily. Nebulizers will cause the secretions in the mucus membranes to loosen up and be excreted through the animal's nose/mouth...it will appear worse, but if the animal have an infection, it is actually benificial to get the mucus out. A better antibiotic, one that has worked for Baytril sensitive species is called Fortaz. It is not cheap, but it is potent and has proven safe. It is often given as an injection three days apart, it is less painful than Baytril, which can burn when injected, and it seems not to cause stress to the kidneys, the way Baytril does. Fortaz is a human drug, used for upper respitory problems and given by IV, it works wonders for bones infections in reptiles as well. If you only have one vet, you need to ask specifically for the drug and they may not have heard of it...some are relucatnt to use things that they are not familiar with, but Mader's dosing for the drug is fine. Lactated ringers would be good fluid to use sub-Q, to get those burdened kidneys flushed and the animal rehydrated, then stick with just plain sub-Q fluids. Keep this animal warmer then usual, but not overly so, that it is stressed and can't escape the heat...80-85F in the cool spot for now. Handle the tortoise as little as possible and minimize stress by keeping him in a quie location. Try feeding him some favorite food items and if he hasn't eaten, turn the lights out after three hours and let him rest....offer again before the day is finished and allow 3 hours for him to show interest, then lights out. If he is eating, give him at least 5 hours of basking/daylight exposure, but otherwise subdued lighting will reduce stress and facilitate rest that speeds recover. Good luck and remember, I am not a vet, just giving advice based on my experences, both in a clinical setting and with my own animals, none were leopard tortoises. I will also add that I would not offer said advice if I thought there was anything more dangerous about my suggested course of action, than the currentuse of Baytril and vitamin shots....I have never seen Fortaz kill an animal or fail to treat an issue that was treated in time, but I have seen Baytril kill and have photgraphic evidence of Baytril nearly killing a chameleon and then its recovery switched to Fortaz. I also have formed necropsies on animals under Baytril treatment and seen damaged kidneys, so that is my advice, based on those things. Best of luck.
 

samstar

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Just to add my 2 cents here, both my Stars had RNS and both were treated with Baytrill nebulisation with no adverse effects at all but still the the bubbles after 2 doses of antibiotics, the RNS was basically clear bubbles every now and than so my vet said not to give anymore antibiotics becuase the antibiotics would have already killed the virus if there were any and also they were eating very well, hence an allergy, perhaps to the carpet or weather. So I just made sure they got their warmth from the UVB/UVA bulb, fed them more hibiscus, soaked them regularly 3 times a week and today they are perfectly fine. The vet also mentioned that if they are eating fine and active than let them be and that their imune system will build up and fight the virus if there's any. Sometimes it's not necessary that clear bubbles means RNS, it could just be an allergy like we humans also get. If a room is dusty, we sneeze and it's the same with our little loved one's.
On another note, my Radiated Tortoise was given a vitamin shot next to her rear legs and she was fine so I would look for another vet just to get a second opinion. Sorry did you say 2 days nebulisation? That's something I have never heard of.
 

sofi132

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I wish I had read this sooner because my Mum has just gone to take him to the vets. I phoned her and told her that leopard tortoises are allergic and that nebulisation probably isnt necissary, especially for 2 days, and leopard tortoises aren't meant to be kept in humidity anyway.

She said she will tell the vet this. I'm just so worried, he was so scared after he was injected, you could see on his face how terrified he was and I was crying my eyes out, which was quite embarrassing because I was sat in the waiting room.

Thank you all for your replies!



emysemys said:
Hi Sofi132:

I'm sorry to welcome you to the forum under such sad circumstances.

lt is a fact that some leopard tortoises are allergic to Baytril. And it sounds like that is what's going on with your tortoise. I think you've had a pretty bad experience with that vet and you need to find another one. One who knows more about turtles and tortoises. I don't know what the antidote is for the Baytril allergic reaction, but I do know that soaking the tortoise will help to get the drug out of his system faster. Put him in a shallow tub of warm water and just leave him there (under your supervision) for an hour or so.

Also, we NEVER, never allow a vet to inject our tortoises with the vitamin shots. They don't seem to understand the correct dosing and usually cause the tortoise's skin to slough off. So watch for that too.

I never worry about bubbly or runny noses as long as the tortoise is eating and otherwise acting normal. What's a few bubbles among friends? :D The tortoise's nares end up in the roof of the mouth, not down the throat, so quite often, what's in the mouth comes out the nose.

As for the male parts coming out...that was just due to the stressful situation. This is quite common and nothing to worry about.

Good luck with your tortoise. I hope he can get over this allergy and get back to normal quickly.

Thank you very much for your reply, if you had not replied I wouldn't know that my tortoise had an allergic reaction to baytril and he would be being injected by it right now :D but I phoned my mum just as she took him to the vets and they're not going to do anything yet, he's going to phone again at 10am.

About the vitamins, his skin has started to go whiteish and peeling. :/
 

sofi132

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I'm going to ask the vet about trying him with marbocyl, it is recommended by the tortoise trust and i've read other people found it worked well.

Thank you all so much for your replies, I'm very grateful.

My tortoise is doing well, still not eating as much as he used to but he is definatly eating so that is good. I will give him a bath later, just to make sure the baytril is out of his system. :)
 
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