Lethargic baby, Could water be the issue?

[ChevyK]

Now up until a week ago he was doing great but as of recently he has stopped moving and eating and doing pretty much everything. He looks the same from what i can tell no stuff anround the eyes or nose and i don't think his enclosure would be the problem. I have read more about this little guy than i think i have ever read in my entire life. I have countless tabs open of discussions on this site where i have gotten all of my information from. I have the temps at 93-98 under the light, the warm side being in 81-87, cool in the 70s and a night time in the mid to low 70s. humidity stays in the 80s because he is only 4 months old. and i soak him daily in warm water. I feed him mostly dandelion and clover leaves as well as soaked mazuris. i'll post picture of the enclosure on this forum as well but i just moved everything to redo his whole tank. so nothing is in place.

he has been very lethargic not opening his eyes or eating and only moving a few centimeters when i put him down and has only moved once this week when i lowered his basking light thinking that was the problem and it was a bit too hot for him so he moved a few inches away from the light. that was the most i have seen him move this whole week. as of vets in the area I live in Chesapeake Va and i don't think there is a reptile specialist in the area and have heard it might not be the best idea to bring him somewhere where all they will do is give him a shot and send him on his way to only digress faster
I was wondering is the tap water could be the cause. I am fairly sure i have followed the information on here correctly, especially the beginners mistakes and Hermann's care sheet. the only other thing i could think of that i'm not doing right is not giving him okay water.

I have only made one post on here and you all helped me tremendously. it was about a blood spot on my baby's shell. I Found out it was due to the little amount of pressure i would put on the spot after a soak that would cause it.

im sorry for the long post i'm known to put a lot of information when typing but i don't wanna loose my little guy, especially due to my own negligence. Could anybody help me figure out what is wrong.

 

[ChevyK]

here are the pictures again his tank is a mess i was going to redo it but stoped to make this post as i couldn't wait. he is in front of his food at 87F but still has not taken a single bite

 

[wellington]

He looks like he doesn't feel good. I would start soaking him daily, for at least a half hour in warm water with unflavored piedylyte and carrot baby food. Twice a day wouldn't hurt
Keep this up until he seems 100%.
Good luck.
Btw, do you know how he was started by the breeder?

 

[ChevyK]

He looks like he doesn't feel good. I would start soaking him daily, for at least a half hour in warm water with unflavored piedylyte and carrot baby food. Twice a day wouldn't hurt
Keep this up until he seems 100%.
Good luck.
Btw, do you know how he was started by the breeder?

Thank you for your reply. i usually do 15-20 mins but i will up it to 30 and keep it warm and i just purchased baby carrot food for the little guy. he is responsive with wind and touch so that's atleast good but he does seem a lot more down then usual. i will also keep it slightly warmer in this home around 80 minimum.

as for the breeder, no clue that was my fault, i failed to do research before buying him i just saw how cute he was and couldn't resist. i bought him in january from Pet Paradise in Virginia Beach. He was by far the smallest guy in the little enclosure but he was bright eyed and moving and he was stuck in my mind for a few days before i went back and bought him.

 

[Tom]

here are the pictures again his tank is a mess i was going to redo it but stoped to make this post as i couldn't wait. he is in front of his food at 87F but still has not taken a single bite

Overall, your conditions and temps sound all correct. That food bowl that he is in in the picture is much too large and tall sided for him, but that has nothin to do with this problem. I would also keep the coir more damp and hand pack it, but again, that is not the case of this issue.

Since you are doing everything correctly, I would go back to the breeder. Most breeders skip steps and don't do things correctly. Since you don't know who the breeder was and what they did or did not do, we can only guess.

 

[Krista S]

Now up until a week ago he was doing great but as of recently he has stopped moving and eating and doing pretty much everything. He looks the same from what i can tell no stuff anround the eyes or nose and i don't think his enclosure would be the problem. I have read more about this little guy than i think i have ever read in my entire life. I have countless tabs open of discussions on this site where i have gotten all of my information from. I have the temps at 93-98 under the light, the warm side being in 81-87, cool in the 70s and a night time in the mid to low 70s. humidity stays in the 80s because he is only 4 months old. and i soak him daily in warm water. I feed him mostly dandelion and clover leaves as well as soaked mazuris. i'll post picture of the enclosure on this forum as well but i just moved everything to redo his whole tank. so nothing is in place.

he has been very lethargic not opening his eyes or eating and only moving a few centimeters when i put him down and has only moved once this week when i lowered his basking light thinking that was the problem and it was a bit too hot for him so he moved a few inches away from the light. that was the most i have seen him move this whole week. as of vets in the area I live in Chesapeake Va and i don't think there is a reptile specialist in the area and have heard it might not be the best idea to bring him somewhere where all they will do is give him a shot and send him on his way to only digress faster
I was wondering is the tap water could be the cause. I am fairly sure i have followed the information on here correctly, especially the beginners mistakes and Hermann's care sheet. the only other thing i could think of that i'm not doing right is not giving him okay water.

I have only made one post on here and you all helped me tremendously. it was about a blood spot on my baby's shell. I Found out it was due to the little amount of pressure i would put on the spot after a soak that would cause it.

im sorry for the long post i'm known to put a lot of information when typing but i don't wanna loose my little guy, especially due to my own negligence. Could anybody help me figure out what is wrong.

You’ve been given excellent advice here already. The only thing I want to add is in regards to your question about if tap water is ok. If the water is safe for you to drink, it’s good for the tortoise. That shouldn’t be any factor in why your little guy isn’t feeling good.

How much does he weigh now and how much did he weigh when you got him? How are you measuring the temperatures? It’s best to use digital thermometers and to have them measuring temps at the height of the tortoise. Also, digital point and shoot temperature guns are great for checking surface level temps. This is really the only thing I can think of, is that maybe the thermometer you’re using isn’t reading correctly. I’m sorry he’s not feeling well. I hope with the soaks that Wellington explained, that he’ll turn the corner and get past this. Please keep us updated on how he’s doing.

 

[ChevyK]

Thank you for your reply. i usually do 15-20 mins but i will up it to 30 and keep it warm and i just purchased baby carrot food for the little guy. he is responsive with wind and touch so that's atleast good but he does seem a lot more down then usual. i will also keep it slightly warmer in this home around 80 minimum.

as for the breeder, no clue that was my fault, i failed to do research before buying him i just saw how cute he was and couldn't resist. i bought him in january from Pet Paradise in Virginia Beach. He was by far the smallest guy in the little enclosure but he was bright eyed and moving and he was stuck in my mind for a few days before i went back and bought him.

He looks like he doesn't feel good. I would start soaking him daily, for at least a half hour in warm water with unflavored piedylyte and carrot baby food. Twice a day wouldn't hurt
Keep this up until he seems 100%.
Good luck.
Btw, do you know how he was started by the breeder?

thank you everyone for your comments. i feel like you guys helped me as much as possible i put him to bed last night as i didn't get home till 10:30 at night. he was still responsive. i didn't not want to wake him so instead i decided to wake up early and get started soaking him once before work and once when i got home. i woke up turned on his basking light and i saw he had turned around facing inside of his hide and i was hopeful. i grabbed the Pedialyte and carrot baby food warmed it up and when i went to grab him there was no reaction at all. he was cold even though the nighttime temps was at 83. i placed him in warm water and nothing my baby was gone. i don't know if i should've kept him awake last night but i feel awful. i hope he wasn't in too much pain. i've read that baby should be okay aslong as i do everything right but i can't help but feel i could have done more. it's a terrible feeling i mean i only waited a couple of hours and he was go e like that. despite that. im
very very thankful for you you guy for helping me out as much as you guys did l. i woudve never had made this far without you guys


i used a temp probe along with a heat gun and a cooking thermometer to get the exact surface temperature

 

[ChevyK]

about his weight. up until a week and a half ago i was freaking out because he was smaller then his buddies but the store said he was younger so it made sense. he was around 9 when i got him and only made it up to 11-12g never higher. i was sure he was eating up until this week or the last but i called and checked with the store twice and they said i shouldn't expect any growth until he's passed 6 months at least. i guess that made we worry less but i shouldn't have listened to a pet store with all animals and a tiny tortise section. everyone around me recommended i listen to them since that's where i got him from but i should've known better than to listen to their advice. i would go to all the pet stores in my area and get their information on hermanns tortoise. all of their pamphlets were wrong but out of all of them the store where i got him was the closest to the information on this website so i thought they were more trustworthy than the rest.

 

[wellington]

So very sorry. It sounds like he didn't get a good start from hatching to before you got him.
If you get another, look for a breeder from this forum. Most if not all of them start them correctly.
Stores and breeders that start them dry are bad news. I don't think it had anything to do with you. It also probably wouldn't have mattered if you had started the soaks last night.

 

[Krista S]

I’m so sorry to hear he has passed away. Even if you had given him the soak a few hours sooner, it isn’t likely that it would have made a difference. I know this is incredibly heartbreaking, but I feel like this little guys fate was sealed before you even bought him. From everything you’ve told us, it sounds like he just wasn’t started right. The store is incorrect in saying the tortoise wouldn’t have any growth until after 6 months. Shame on them! This sounds like hatchling failure syndrome. There are unfortunately endless stories on here about it. Please don’t let this heartbreak keep you from bringing another tortoise into your life, if you have the desire to try again. Please try to not beat yourself up over this. It wasn’t your fault. ❤️

 

[ChevyK]

So very sorry. It sounds like he didn't get a good start from hatching to before you got him.
If you get another, look for a breeder from this forum. Most if not all of them start them correctly.
Stores and breeders that start them dry are bad news. I don't think it had anything to do with you. It also probably wouldn't have mattered if you had started the soaks last night.

thank you so much i definitely want to try again and have Tbs love live on in a new tortoise but i think i will take a bit of time to know i truly have all the information i need to be ready to get a new guy. and i very much will get a tortoise from a breeder on this forum i trust you guys much more. I went to the store (very very sweet people other than this owner i've never met) and the owner pretty much told me it was my fault. "too big of an enclosure" and he got lost and dried out. I knew this was a lie. no way in the world was it too dry infact at the start i think i had it a little too wet and fixed it so the substrate was always spongy not dripping. even though he was a baby he was very smart, always knew where he was and where to go. also he said i had it too hot, with a temp of 95-98 only directly under the light i think he was just trying to make stuff up. i kindly told him i would just like to know the breeder so i can see how the are bred and he said very upset "i can't do it right now". so i gave him my number and hopefully he actually contacts me. I knew the risks of getting a hatchling and i was sure i could have him thrive. i truly feel like i did everything i could've.

THANK YOU ALL, you guys have been absolutely amazing i won't let little tbs passing get in my head sadly he didn't make it but i won't let that discourage me i know i can give a tortoise plenty of care along with all the love in my heart.

 

[TammyJ]

Thank you so much for trying your very best to help him.

 

[Krista S]

thank you so much i definitely want to try again and have Tbs love live on in a new tortoise but i think i will take a bit of time to know i truly have all the information i need to be ready to get a new guy. and i very much will get a tortoise from a breeder on this forum i trust you guys much more. I went to the store (very very sweet people other than this owner i've never met) and the owner pretty much told me it was my fault. "too big of an enclosure" and he got lost and dried out. I knew this was a lie. no way in the world was it too dry infact at the start i think i had it a little too wet and fixed it so the substrate was always spongy not dripping. even though he was a baby he was very smart, always knew where he was and where to go. also he said i had it too hot, with a temp of 95-98 only directly under the light i think he was just trying to make stuff up. i kindly told him i would just like to know the breeder so i can see how the are bred and he said very upset "i can't do it right now". so i gave him my number and hopefully he actually contacts me. I knew the risks of getting a hatchling and i was sure i could have him thrive. i truly feel like i did everything i could've.

THANK YOU ALL, you guys have been absolutely amazing i won't let little tbs passing get in my head sadly he didn't make it but i won't let that discourage me i know i can give a tortoise plenty of care along with all the love in my heart.

I’m sorry this jacka** didn’t have any sympathy and chose to lie to shift the blame onto you. I promise you, the enclosure was not too big. If the enclosure had ambient temp of 95 to 98 overall, then that would be too hot, but having that just under the basking light is proper. One reason it is important to have an enclosure with some length is so there is a temperature gradient. This allows the tortoise to thermal regulate so they are comfortable. Even as a tiny little tortoise, they have no issue making it from one side to the other. I am glad you aren’t blaming yourself for this. The guy you spoke with is just saying what he has to so that he doesn’t have to give you a refund. Keep your head up. While doing more research, if you have any questions at all, please don’t hesitate to ask. There’s a lot of great people on the forum who love to help and share their knowledge. Take care ❤️

 

[wellington]

Yea, that store knows nothing and shouldn't be selling tortoises.

 

[ChevyK]

Yea, that store knows nothing and shouldn't be selling tortoises.

I’m sorry this jacka** didn’t have any sympathy and chose to lie to shift the blame onto you. I promise you, the enclosure was not too big. If the enclosure had ambient temp of 95 to 98 overall, then that would be too hot, but having that just under the basking light is proper. One reason it is important to have an enclosure with some length is so there is a temperature gradient. This allows the tortoise to thermal regulate so they are comfortable. Even as a tiny little tortoise, they have no issue making it from one side to the other. I am glad you aren’t blaming yourself for this. The guy you spoke with is just saying what he has to so that he doesn’t have to give you a refund. Keep your head up. While doing more research, if you have any questions at all, please don’t hesitate to ask. There’s a lot of great people on the forum who love to help and share their knowledge. Take care ❤️

i completely agree. the workers are wonderful don't get me wrong. the ladies i have talked to there have all cared and asked me similar questions as you guys have. every time i went there they agreed that everything i was doing seemed right and he looked happy and healthy but the owner/"reptile expert" who was the only one there today is a complete imbecile, he chose to act like that even after i made it clear i wasn't looking for a refund and just wanted to know for sure that i wasn't the problem. After he lets me know the breeder i will kindly suggest that he does more research, though i doubt that he'll listen to a kid. he ruined my whole experience of that store.

After I take some time to mourn I am sure you guys will hear from me about information on where to get a lovely new baby. I am thinking i will look for a well started juvenile instead of a hatchling when I am ready. until then please take care I appreciate every one of you guys❤️