Light issues

[Tortimum]

Please help! I’m new here had my little Eric (Horsefield Tortoise) for 2 nights. The reptile shop said that he is one year old.
I’ve bought a pre done viv from the pet shop and currently I have a basking light which they have advised 31 degrees in the day with the uv light strip on and 27 degrees at night with the uv light off, from a lot of places I’ve read that they are meant to have a dark viv at night time so they can sleep but despite this light being on a dimmable thermostat it is staying very bright at night. I’ve spoke to the pet shop and he said the bulb needs to adjust and it will lower light over time, I think that sounds a little silly. What do you all advise I just want something easy? Will I have to change between a day bulb and a night bulb? Thanks in advance! Here’s some pictures of the set up. First picture is night and second picture is day.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello and welcome!

Unfortunately, the pet shop gave you wrong advice on care.

1. Yes, tortoises sleep in the dark. And if your room temperatures stay in 21-23C no additional heating is needed. For adult tortoises nighttime temperatures can dip to 17-18C (could be even lower, but this is the safe range).
2. Basking lamp, ideally, should not be on a thermostat - you need to use lower wattage bulb and adjust height to get 35-37C at the basking area with the rest of the vivarium in 24-25C.
3. To maintain ambient temperature a combination of ceramic heat emitter (heater which gives no light, CHE) and simple on/off thermostat is usually used. You install the socket and CHE in the middle of the vivarium, place thermostat probe closer to the "cold end", set temperature on thermostat to 22C and forget about it.
4. The substrates offered are bad choice for baby Horsfields. Orchid bark or coco coir are better options. They also retain moisture and this helps tortoise to thermoregulate and get into a humid microclimate while burrowing.

You can check this detailed care guide (and temperate species care sheet linked at the bottom of that post):

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

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Also, search in that post for a word "breakdown" for the recommended heating/lightning setup, lightning timings and such.

Please ask more questions!

 

[Tom]

Please help! I’m new here had my little Eric (Horsefield Tortoise) for 2 nights. The reptile shop said that he is one year old.
I’ve bought a pre done viv from the pet shop and currently I have a basking light which they have advised 31 degrees in the day with the uv light strip on and 27 degrees at night with the uv light off, from a lot of places I’ve read that they are meant to have a dark viv at night time so they can sleep but despite this light being on a dimmable thermostat it is staying very bright at night. I’ve spoke to the pet shop and he said the bulb needs to adjust and it will lower light over time, I think that sounds a little silly. What do you all advise I just want something easy? Will I have to change between a day bulb and a night bulb? Thanks in advance! Here’s some pictures of the set up. First picture is night and second picture is day.

Hello and welcome. Alex spelled it all out perfectly for you. Questions are welcome.

 

[Tortimum]

Thanks for the message back I’m just finding it a bit too much and quite complicated. So I need 2 sources? A basking light, a CHE and a UV strip light?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome from a fellow uk member!
Unfortunately you’ve been sold a lot of incorrect equipment and materials, pet shops are renowned for it

I’m going to fire off a lot of information here, I don’t want you to panic or get scared off, the information I’m giving you is for you to go over carefully in your own time for starting on a better enclosure moving forward. Though this one, with some adjustments, could last you about a year or more, so don’t panic starting scratch just yet.

I’m going to give you all this, but I will then go back over your most pressing questions in getting this current set up sorted so they’re more comfortable whilst in there

As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that our climate makes it difficult to house outdoors full time, an outdoor enclosure is great for them to enjoy in summer though! I would generally discourage free roaming outside of a safe enclosure.
Care advice for these guys is painfully behind, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise.

Yours is still a baby so will need to be in a closed chamber till around 3 years old anyway.

As adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthen their muscles.
Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage indoor free roams, being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often, smooth surfaces like laminate flooring will wreak absolute havoc on their hip joints over time.
There’s just numerous reasons it isn’t a good idea unfortunately, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam, flipping hazards, smooth services, the list goes on and is endless.
They feel most comfortable and safe in a space that best mimics their natural environment, so an appropriate sized enclosure is always the ultimate goal, hopefully we can help

This is how I’d personally tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size in the future, the types of equipment to use, how to maintain humidity, and a cost effective way for you to get a suitable sized enclosure, hopefully it helps inspire an idea for you

You may already have/know some of this stuff but I’ll include it anyway for any new members who come across it

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. They are a non light emitting bulb. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. We’re a cooler climate so you’ll probably need them.

Large wide domes help in projecting the heat down, just don’t solely rely on the clamps, always hang securely.

Any indoor Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I personally recommend the Arcadia proT5 kit 12% because it comes with the reflector fitting.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The trouble with top soil is you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, they could be toxic. Sand and moss are impaction risks.

Those pellets and soil needs replacing asap, the pellets can swell in the stomach if swallowed.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then, which also helps boosting humidity or give the top a spray. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I don’t recommend misters or foggers, they get the air too wet and cause respiratory problems. Spraying won’t last as long.

Humidity for young growing tortoises needs to be maintained around 80+%, 24/7, you’ll find that difficult to achieve with an open top so it’s good you’ve got a closed chamber for nowfor the set up I’m recommending moving forward, I’d get a greenhouse cover. Once the tortoise is older a cover won’t be needed.

To maintain humidity whilst the tortoise is younger a greenhouse style set up works well and provides more space, as an adult they are going to ideally need a minimum of an 8x4, the bigger you go the better, it’s ideal if you can build your own base to go as big as you can for the room you have. A 4x2 or 4x4 will last you until they’re a bit bigger, you can hang onto the one you have until you make this one

If you can’t find an exact fit for your base with the cover, then place it over like the one with the white base in the photo, I’d put lining down under the base and cover though to stop condensate getting on your floor.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds or just make their own, for both these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough to prevent escapes.

Some people even hang their lighting from the greenhouse frame!(if sturdy enough) Simply wrap the wire round so it’s at the height you need(check with temp gun/put thermostat in, 18-21 inches for uv I recommend) then secure with cable ties&chains.

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy. You could throw some pvc covering over the stands if youre struggling for a topper, but again if you do that, I’d put lining down under the base to stop condensate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard like the one you’re using, I’d replace that asap too.

If going for this set up, allow up to a week for the materials to ‘off gas’ with the heat running, until there’s no smell, once odourless, it’s safe for use

Ignore whatever else is in these enclosures in the photos, they’re just to give you an idea

For the diet side of things, avoid fruit. You want to stick with leafy greens and weeds for these guys, perhaps you’ll find this link below useful, in the wildflower section there’s so many plants that grow perfectly in our climate! Perhaps you could get some seeds offline and plant into organic soil(no fertilisers or chemicals) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access to, forage them as they growbe very wary foraging elsewhere, you can’t be sure there’s no chemicals and they’re toxic lookalikes so always double check.

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Sorry I know that’s a lot lol, you can put it on the back burner for now

To sum up, try and follow Alex’s suggestions, the basking light should be the right height and watt to achieve the desired basking temp underneath without the need for a thermostat, to check this I’d get yourself a temp gun!
Then to make up ambient heat/ give night heat, get yourself a CHE, that will need running on a on/off thermostat(not a dimming one) that will give the tortoise heat at night but keep things dark, they do indeed need complete darkness at night.
Then replace the substrate to one of the safe options we’ve mentioned, and maintain it as mentioned in my response.
Also switch out that water dish.

Once your humidity and temps are correct, your little one will be feeling much more comfortable in this set up, definitely grab yourself a temp gun and I’d change those dial monitors(they aren’t very accurate) for some digital ones that measure your temperature and humidity

Any further questions/things you need breaking down, please ask away! I know it can look overwhelming, I’ve been when you are! We’re all here to help every step of the way

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for the message back I’m just finding it a bit too much and quite complicated. So I need 2 sources? A basking light, a CHE and a UV strip light?

Yes, a CHE bulb mounted into a wide(not deep) dome fitting, you can put it in the middle of the enclosure, then the on/off thermostat it’ll be ran on, can have the probe placed in the corner of the cooler end.

Then you’ll have your basking floodlight on a 12hour timer, you can also add an led on the same timer if you wish to brighten the enclosure a bit more during the day, it helps keeping them active

Then on a separate 4 hour timer from noon, the t5 UV, Arcadia proT5 12% is the best to go for, you can get the smallest one, mount it nearer the basking bulb
There’s a lot of places that say to have your uv on the same amount of time the basking is on, it’s an old fashioned rule that’s stuck with most keepers, but the fact is, no tortoise in the wild is blasted with 12hours of uv, the uv rays peak for around 3-4 hours a day, therefore it’s fine to mimic this in captivity and save your bulb life

Hope this helps!

 

[Tortimum]

Wow, thanks for all the advice. I think I feel a little overwhelmed with all the information and things I’ve never heard about.
I’ve put a few things in my Amazon basket now what you have suggested so thank you.
You have gave me the temperatures during the day so what are the temperatures at night?
Also can I add another space for my CHE bulb myself.
Also what are some good plants to add to the viv?
Thanks

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the message back I’m just finding it a bit too much and quite complicated. So I need 2 sources? A basking light, a CHE and a UV strip light?

This is what Alex mentioned above:
Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Wow, thanks for all the advice. I think I feel a little overwhelmed with all the information and things I’ve never heard about.
I’ve put a few things in my Amazon basket now what you have suggested so thank you.
You have gave me the temperatures during the day so what are the temperatures at night?
Also can I add another space for my CHE bulb myself.
Also what are some good plants to add to the viv?
Thanks

Can you share your shopping list before making on order? We'll check if everything's correct. Also, you can check SwellReptile online shop - they might have better prices

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Wow, thanks for all the advice. I think I feel a little overwhelmed with all the information and things I’ve never heard about.
I’ve put a few things in my Amazon basket now what you have suggested so thank you.
You have gave me the temperatures during the day so what are the temperatures at night?
Also can I add another space for my CHE bulb myself.
Also what are some good plants to add to the viv?
Thanks

No problem, I understand, don’t worry, take your time going over it

If you want, attach screenshots of the products you’ve found and we can help guide you on them, could save you some time and money

I’d go with the night temps Alex has suggested

Plant wise, I’d have a look at some places online like the tortoise hut if you’re wanting to put them in right away, store brought needs their roots washing and planting in coir, then wait up to six months before introducing, spider plants are a good start, when they start producing babies though, cut them because the flowers and seeds are toxic

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Good plants for terrarium are spider plant, carex, hosta, boston fern. When you buy them from a shop it's better to wash the plant (including roots) and plant it into a soil free from pesticides and fertilizers. Then you can place pots in the terrarium. It's better to propagate store-bought plants from new cuttings.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

If you get a spider plant, get one established outside of the enclosure in organic soil(free of fertilisers or added chemicals) then you’ll have an endless supply of themAlex’s other plant suggestions are great choices

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I’d definitely post the products before purchasing if you can, it’s easy to get things mixed up

 

[Tortimum]

I will most definitely do that! Thanks for the help guys and I’ll get my shopping list across soon! Also if I can have night temperature 21-23 degrees can I turn the basking light down to that temperature at night? I think the light goes off when it’s at a lower temperature?
The humidity currently is at 40% so going to be hard to try and get it up to 80%

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I will most definitely do that! Thanks for the help guys and I’ll get my shopping list across soon! Also if I can have night temperature 21-23 degrees can I turn the basking light down to that temperature at night? I think the light goes off when it’s at a lower temperature?
The humidity currently is at 40% so going to be hard to try and get it up to 80%

Yes, at 21-23 degrees it's safe to turn off heaters and heat lamps.
The basking lamp should be on a timer, not on a thermostat.

Humidity won't be an issue in a vivarium once you change the substrate. Just pour some water in the corners of the viv once a week. When you'll be changing substrate - put a shower curtain, pond liner or other plastic film on the viv's bottom with an overlap of 4-5 inches on the walls to protect wood and seams from water.

 

[Tortimum]

This is my shopping list so far!

 

[Tortimum]

Here’s my shopping list so far!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I will most definitely do that! Thanks for the help guys and I’ll get my shopping list across soon! Also if I can have night temperature 21-23 degrees can I turn the basking light down to that temperature at night? I think the light goes off when it’s at a lower temperature?
The humidity currently is at 40% so going to be hard to try and get it up to 80%

If you night temp is staying around 21-23 when the basking light goes off(on timer) then you won’t need a ceramic bulb, I’d check your night temps with the gun to determine this, you won’t be turning the basking light down’ at night, it’ll be going off altogether

The right substrate will help your humidity with the pours we’ve mentioned

Here’s my shopping list so far!

everything looks good apart from the dome, I think it’s potentially too small for a che if using one, let me see if I can find the right size for you. You’ll want to get two of those timers you’ve found, one for your basking&ambient light, then one for your uv.

Remove the humid hide from your cart, it comes with sphagnum moss which isn’t appropriate, and the bendy log thing will rot in no time, for a hide you can take an opaque container and cut an entrance hole

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

This is my shopping list so far!

Looks fine! Yet a few questions:
1. What basking lamp do you have now? If it's correct - no need to replace it.
2. What thermostat do you have? Not all dimming thermostats work with ceramic heat emitters.
3. What UVB strip do you have?

Photos of the boxes will be great.